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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-15-2016
very astute post gypsy, short term loss, long term gain
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - pahoated - 08-16-2016
The TMT THINK charity fund is not 100% scholarships. Also, TMT Corp is a nonprofit. Nonprofits are notorious for high overhead. Take that $1 million per year for THINK, it is split into two endowments. Who do you think does that? Accountants. That is considered overhead. Then there is staff for the administration and marketing. Some nonprofits have 20% overhead, which is taken out of the "donation". There are some "charities" that take 80% or more for staff and administrative costs, sometimes with the charity getting less than 10%. A recent famous one is Susan Komen Cancer. Audits found less than 20% of contributions were going for cancer research.
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/opinion/article_405771f8-72c2-11e5-9037-a37fa12a5e0b.html
"Nancy G. Brinker, founder and CEO until 2014, made $684,000. Her base salary in 2012 was $548,785, and her $125,000 bonus gave her an annual salary of more than $700,000. The Susan G. Komen allocates 18 percent of its spending to cancer research."
As for employing Hawaii island residents, these are from the TMT site:
http://www.tmt.org/about-tmt/board-governors
TMT Board of Governors - not a single person from Hawaii island
http://www.tmt.org/about-tmt/science-advisory-committee
TMT Science Committee - one guy from UHH
Here is the Workforce Development Advisory Group, one person from UHH. You have the workforce development on Hawaii island being determined by people from India, Japan, California, every other place. Of course, they are going to know more about workforce development for Hawaii island, mainly because they don't live here, and we all know the best decisions for Hawaii island are made by people that know more about it by never living here.
Steve Pompea (NOAO, Chair)
Wako Aoki (Japan)
Mitch Aiken (Caltech)
Eric Chisholm (Canada)
Claire Max (UC) ; Alternate: Lisa Hunter
Durgesh Tripathi (India) ; Alternate: Samir Dhurde
Yiping Wang (China) ; Consultant: Dr. Jin Zhu , Director, Beijing Planetarium
Paul Coleman (UH)
Judith Donnelly (Three Rivers Community College)
Michelle Hall (Science Education Solutions)
Sue Ann Heatherly (NRAO)
Derek Pitts (Franklin Institute)
This thing about using the THINK fund as a veiled extortion attempt plus a kickback bribe is pretty sleazy marketing tactics. The extent this is going on is even more reason to not support TMT in Hawaii. It is patronizing and condescending to use marketing this way. It is like Big Island Chronicle going on and on about the keiki, the keiki, the keiki, when it was just a cover up for practicing tax evasion and voter registration fraud. If a telescope is going to resort to such despicable practices, it probably doesn't belong here.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 08-16-2016
If a telescope is going to resort to such despicable practices, it probably doesn't belong here.
By the same token, the resorts (with their "less than living wage" pay scales and massive environmental impacts) don't belong here either.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-16-2016
gypsy: A competing quality education today at most top 25 universities costs about $200,000 plus per student, 1-3 million a year won't be helping to many Big Island keiki today let alone 30 to 50 years from now.
Isn't the purpose of the THINK fund to assist local students, locally, which could include an education at UHH or UH, an affordable option for which the TMT scholarships would go a long, long way?
gypsy: Deferring the promised educational Money until 2033 may be a better long-term investment
If you believe the scholarship fund is insubstantial in today's dollars, and even less so in "30 to 50 years from now," how would waiting be "a better long term investment?"
airport parking: very astute post gypsy
Is your use of the word astute a personal definition? Do you have a write-in dictionary?
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 08-16-2016
it's one business with a few jobs
A few more jobs than we had before.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Aaron S - 08-16-2016
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
And please don't take me wrong, I am as pro astronomy as the next person, but with conditions, and tempered by some sense of reality verses the blind fanaticism that most here (on PW) seem to be possessed by. More than possessed, actually rendered to being mean, to being disrespectful, to lacking in any consideration to those that have opposing views. To being outright bigots. It's truly sad how TMT spokespersons like TomK and PaulW have gone to such great lengths to be be as insulting as one could imagine. That alone leads me to wish, hope, that the TMT goes away if they are anything like those that lobby so feverishly for them here on PW. To me TomK has done more to discredit the astronomy community than any other human being alive.
Dakine, the door swings both ways. I've read comments written by you and others that are hate filled, bigoted, ramblings with questionable factual citations. Please don't tell me that you're fighting fire with fire. That won't solve the ongoing impasse that is dividing our community.
I've lost several long time friends because I support this project. It wasn't a fault of my own doing, as my support has always been respectful and factual. These individuals didn't respect my opinion decided to stop being friends with me for one reason, and one reason only.
We've lost any semblance of respect for other people's opinions as a society. If we listened more, and found more common ground, we'd have less divisive conversations about issues such as this.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-16-2016
I mean for real, how many people have had their "stupidity" improved by the last 13 telescopes?
Of course, Albert Einstein already pointed out the relationship between the two:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Even he recognized that human stupidity is greater than the universe that telescopes hope to study.
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - randomq - 08-16-2016
Pahoated, it would make sense that the boards are from the countries and institutes funding the project.
Dakine, that's a strawman argument. No one is saying TMT is a saviour, only that it will contribute more to our island/children's future than tourism, or nothing.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 08-16-2016
"Here is the Workforce Development Advisory Group, one person from UHH. You have the workforce development on Hawaii island being determined by people from India, Japan, California, every other place. Of course, they are going to know more about workforce development for Hawaii island, mainly because they don't live here, and we all know the best decisions for Hawaii island are made by people that know more about it by never living here."
----
The "real" workforce development agency, on the island, (financed part federal, part state, located on Kinoole St, Hilo)) has a pitiful track record of developing anything other than their own salaries.
With that in mind, it is very encouraging to see a group of successful outsiders working towards meaningful education and work goals.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-16-2016
Before the TMT Project starts using millions worth of our Islands resources, maybe it should be a priority to make sure all have equal access to them?
So many people here in Puna are living without county water, electricity, paved roads, trash service, proper waste treatment. Our many keiki here in Puna are lacking Air conditioned classrooms in their schools while The TMT would be running several large Air conditioners all day, every day, to take pictures, gather Data from space and to play star war games. What makes it worse is that much of the electricity and water needed to operate this TMT project or other observatories atop Mauna Kea may actually be coming from Puna today.
No Observatories including the TMT would be able to operate to it's fullest potential without these needed resources or the infrastructure that has been put in place for them. Our Island Keiki today are the future of the Big Island and they are our most precious and most often forgotten or ignored resource. They need Equal access to use their water, electricity, ocean, and Mountain summits before foreign users like the TMT drive the costs up or deplete them. jmo
https://www.scribd.com/document/191448413/The-Big-Island-Growing-Pains