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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - opihikao - 08-16-2016
P.S. Since we're all way off topic already...
My brain cannot envision 6-8 (whatever the arguments are..) STORIES dug into Mauna Kea, and twelve (12) stories high (again, whatever the "stories" are...) being this is "CONSERVATION LAND" (aka/fka "Crown Lands").
ALL eight (8) conditions must be met (per USofA law - Google or research the conditions attached to "Conservation" land; posted it before). The conditions, to date, have not been met.
May Akua watch carefully over us all, and guide us to what is right.
JMFO.
P.S.S. Mr. Tom, and all, this whole damn thing is caused by usurping the "law of the land". From the start, years ago, this project was to be "shoved down our throats", and now that the "tide has turned", (another beating of another dead horse: Mauna Kea/TMT provided a platform for much, much, more. The natives are indeed restless.) Now, finding resolution, and the proverbial balance is becoming a larger task than necessary. Hewa loa.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - opihikao - 08-16-2016
quote:Yes, you did, Mr. Tom (aloha to our Pam, please). No one pays attention to the gory details, instead, prefers to champion their cause, as it were, and do not realize the severity of this issue.
Originally posted by TomK
Thanks, Opihikao. I did post that story a few days ago in an attempt to show the deadline for where the TMT decides to go is much sooner than most realize. The result of the current hearing may not factor in at all in the end.
For the record I (kind of, at this point, due to legal ramifications: ie. TMT suing us all, which they have every right to..)support this damn TMT effort, with conditions. Several conditions...it is not TMT at fault, and yes, (beating a dead horse) the State of Hawai'i, the BLNR, the DLNR, the UH, OHA, and all who contributed to this horrendous situation should be taken out to "Times Square" (or the equal, in the old days), and drawn and quartered. So disgusted.
JMFO.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - opihikao - 08-16-2016
quote:(BBM) Thank you. (Still reading back)
Originally posted by airportparking
"As far as "air conditioning for the keiki", how about designing better buildings instead of cramming everything into a box that must be air conditioned to be habitable? There's some vintage architecture in Hilo that works just fine without A/C. (For that matter, why a "building" when a screen lanai works just fine?)"
O.K. why don't you get right on that, in the meantime how 'bout YOU spring for a couple fans or compact AC for the kids sweating in class ?
What was the topic of this thread again ?
JMFO.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - opihikao - 08-16-2016
quote:(Still reading..BBM) Spot on, Aaron (just the bold portion). Mahalo.
Originally posted by Aaron S
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
And please don't take me wrong, I am as pro astronomy as the next person, but with conditions, and tempered by some sense of reality verses the blind fanaticism that most here (on PW) seem to be possessed by. More than possessed, actually rendered to being mean, to being disrespectful, to lacking in any consideration to those that have opposing views. To being outright bigots. It's truly sad how TMT spokespersons like TomK and PaulW have gone to such great lengths to be be as insulting as one could imagine. That alone leads me to wish, hope, that the TMT goes away if they are anything like those that lobby so feverishly for them here on PW. To me TomK has done more to discredit the astronomy community than any other human being alive.
Dakine, the door swings both ways. I've read comments written by you and others that are hate filled, bigoted, ramblings with questionable factual citations. Please don't tell me that you're fighting fire with fire. That won't solve the ongoing impasse that is dividing our community.
I've lost several long time friends because I support this project. It wasn't a fault of my own doing, as my support has always been respectful and factual. These individuals didn't respect my opinion decided to stop being friends with me for one reason, and one reason only.
We've lost any semblance of respect for other people's opinions as a society. If we listened more, and found more common ground, we'd have less divisive conversations about issues such as this.
JMFO.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - pahoated - 08-16-2016
It has all boiled down to a permit compliance hearing. The judge either rules the last step was left out, repeat it, or find enough irregularities to require the whole permit process be restarted or find the last step was a formality and approve construction to begin.
If a new permit is required, that is going to take 2 to 3 years. I support TMT but not on Hawaii island, for the sake of science. If TMT Corp had gone ahead with Atacama, they would probably have the foundation poured by now.
The estimate for TMT construction on Hawaii island is 8 years (this is not factoring the Hawaii past history of engineering projects taking 4 times longer than estimated). If a new permit is required, then construction wouldn't start until 2018 or 2019. First light was being talked about 2 years ago as 2024. This would push that out to 2026 at the earliest. The lease expires in 2033, that means 8 years of use.
TMT Corp needs to cut their losses, go to the Baja location, get on with it.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-16-2016
No protest in Baha, only people willing to work.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-17-2016
My brain cannot envision 6-8 (whatever the arguments are..) STORIES dug into Mauna Kea,
From the EIS:
The TMT pier foundation will consist of a continuous circular outer wall shallow concrete spread footing bearing on the soil at a depth
of approximately 20 feet below the finished floor grade,
http://www.malamamaunakea.org/uploads/management/plans/TMT_FEIS_vol1.pdf
Page 277
being this is "CONSERVATION LAND" (aka/fka "Crown Lands").
There are five distinct Conservation District designations, each one with unique requirements for building and construction on those properties. There are general guidelines for the process, but a detailed plan must be submitted to the DLNR board for approval. The DLNR board did approve the TMT design, so they had fulfilled all the requirements to build on Conservation District land, as have thousands of other individuals and businesses in Hawaii before them.
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 08-17-2016
TMT suing us all, which they have every right to..
I believe TMT can also seek remedies under NAFTA, meaning that State can't be "rescued" by the Feds.
Can we just crash the economy already, and get started on what comes after?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-17-2016
Can we just crash the economy already, and get started on what comes after?
As I noted on another thread, if we enforce all laws currently on the books in Hawaii County, it would require every resident to be hired on as county inspectors and investigators to provide even-handed enforcement of the rules.
Jobs.
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Aaron S - 08-17-2016
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
ALL eight (8) conditions must be met (per USofA law - Google or research the conditions attached to "Conservation" land; posted it before). The conditions, to date, have not been met.
The Supreme Court decision didn't address whether the TMT project met all eight conditions to construct this project on conservation land. The majority decision was much more narrower. It invalidated the CDUP because the approval was predetermined before the first contested case hearing.
The hearing officer's recommendation to the BLNR stated the TMT project met all eight conditions.
http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/occl/files/2013/08/HA-11-05-TMT-Final-Decision.pdf