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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Aaron S - 08-17-2016
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
It has all boiled down to a permit compliance hearing. The judge either rules the last step was left out, repeat it, or find enough irregularities to require the whole permit process be restarted or find the last step was a formality and approve construction to begin.
If a new permit is required, that is going to take 2 to 3 years. I support TMT but not on Hawaii island, for the sake of science. If TMT Corp had gone ahead with Atacama, they would probably have the foundation poured by now.
The petitioners are trying to invalidate the CDUP permit application on the grounds the TMT project is using a slightly different name between when it when it was filed in 2010 and now. This is a legally flimsy argument, so I doubt it will gain much traction.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - pahoated - 08-17-2016
It's a use permit. Use permits get thrown out for small noncompliance irregularities all the time. There is a parallel to unpermitted shacks in Puna and permits. Everybody thinks they don't need no stinking permit, until they do need one, usually for an unplanned sale, then they find out what starting at the back of the line means. Usually they just abandon their jungle ghetto shack.
The whole issue is OBE (overtaken by events) anyway. It is going to be possible to have thousands of space based telescopes within 2 years. There will be hundreds going into orbit over that time. There are better areas of development this county could benefit from with far less environmental impact.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-17-2016
It is going to be possible to have thousands of space based telescopes within 2 years. There will be hundreds going into orbit over that time.
In the year 2015 there was a worldwide total of 87 rocket launches, 82 successful, for all types of satellites. Not sure if any were space based telescopes but here's the list if anyone would like to check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_in_spaceflight
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 08-17-2016
It's a use permit. Use permits get thrown out for small noncompliance irregularities all the time.
A "use permit" is no substitute for "real zoning", as demonstrated here.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 08-17-2016
HOTPE wrote:
"In the year 2015 there was a worldwide total of 87 rocket launches, 82 successful, for all types of satellites. Not sure if any were space based telescopes but here's the list if anyone would like to check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_in_spaceflight"
I looked at the list. There were four satellites launched that you could define as astronomy based telescopes or observatories and none that would do any science the TMT will do. Two were solar telescopes, one was an X-ray observatory and the fourth was a high-energy observatory designed to detect gamma and cosmic rays.
So far in 2016, two have been launched and one more planned. None are optical/infrared telescopes like the TMT.
2017: two are currently planned for launch. One will work at similar wavelengths as the TMT but is designed for exoplanet observations only.
2018: one is currently planned (the James Webb Space Telescope - JWST). That's the one the TMT want to operate with at the same time. Since the JWST has a limited operational lifetime with no chance of being maintained or upgraded, the TMT board are now reconsidering the telescope's location.
I'm having trouble making those numbers add up to hundreds let alone thousands.
Edited to add more info.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 08-18-2016
When a homeless guy arrested for blocking people's path and demanding money can have his case go all the way to the state Supreme Court and walk away with over $200k for violation of his 'protected free speech', things do not look good on the legal front for any sane venture here.
---------------------------
You can't fix Samsara.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-18-2016
So far in 2016, two have been launched and one more planned.
2017: two are currently planned for launch.
2018: one is currently planned
Thanks Tom. So in conclusion, after fact checking this edition of Stars Over Puna, we've found:
Billions & billions. - Carl Sagan - - TRUE
Hundreds & thousands (space based telescopes). - pahoated - - FALSE
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 08-18-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron S
The hearing officer's recommendation to the BLNR stated the TMT project met all eight conditions.
http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/occl/files/2013/08/HA-11-05-TMT-Final-Decision.pdf
Aaron, thanks for linking this it was a fascinating read. I'd long forgotten about this. Some petitioners were testifying on the behalf of deities wishes. I can just see the judge trying to get Mo‘oinanea to provide an affidavit.
Legally the only way I see this playing out is to hear all the testimonies then issue the permit. There's just nothing new offered in this case from previous rulings.
In fact, the evidence has gotten circumstantially worse against the protesters because of all the stated claims of prayers, etc. that apparently are unobstructed by the current astronomy structures there, including their use of the road, the bathrooms and electricity to charge their cell phones.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - pahoated - 08-30-2016
Big update. Now, Ige and BLNR are going to have to present the case why the State wants TMT on Mauna Kea. The hurricanes send this to basement priority for awhile.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/amano-denies-protective-order-ige-blnr-officials
Amano denies protective order for Ige, BLNR officials
The potential for thousands of space telescopes has only developed in the past few months. Also, the telescope on Juno doesn't count? Or the telescope on New Horizons, or the telescope on Cassini? Your emotion filled resentment is filling your eyes with blood, unable to see the things that can see.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - randomq - 08-30-2016
Cool, put them on the spot, we need people on the record.
"resentment is filling your eyes with blood" sounds like something the creepy bible thumping redneck dude says at the beginning of a horror movie though.