+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Hawaiian Acres Roads (/showthread.php?tid=13536)
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 04-29-2014
From page 6 of Hawaiian Acres Community Association Newsletter 1962:
On May 7 1958, the Chief Engineer of Hawaii County, in a letter to the Planning and Traffic Commission, approved the subdivision, then belonging to Robert M Yamada, with the provision that "roads be retained by the owner".
On May 14 1958, in a letter to Mr Yamada, the Planning and Traffic Commission approved the subdivision subject to the rollowing conditions:
1. Roadways be kept in private ownership until improved to subdivision standards;
2. All interior lots be granted a perpetual easement over the said private roadways.
On September 20 1961, Tropic Estates Ltd advised the Planning and Traffic Commission that they had completed the construction of the subdivision, Hawaii Acres, and added:
Also be advised that a program for the future maintenance of these completed roadways is presently prepared as to the necessary requirements for such a project.
On December 7 1961, a meeting was held before the Planning and Traffic Commission, whereby HACA was heard in its demurrer to the notice of completion filed by Tropic Estates. As a result of this hearing, the Commission referred the matter to the County Attorney to determine if Tropic Estates had fulfilled the requirements of its contract.
On January 15 1962, the Association learned verbally that the Planning and Traffic Commission had requested a written contract from Tropic Estates covering the subdivision construction, but to date had not received it.
* * * * *
It is the contention of HACA that the original approval of the subdivision intended that the roads be retained by the owner, the subdivider. That Tropic Estates, without legality, wrote into the contract of sales that lot owners would possess 1/3944 part of the roads.
That this division of the roads was not possible, in any event, since there are only 3943 parcels of land, and that such a division is impossible, and hence, invalid.
That Tropic Estates acknowledges its responsibility for road maintenance in its letter of September 20 1961.
That the roads alleged at the time of completion were not fully completed according to Plot Plan Titled Land Court Application #1053.
That the roads, at the time of the demurrer, two months later, could not be "improved" roads suitable in every instance for vehicular travel.
That many sections of the roadway are dangerous to traffic or are impassable even in dry weather.
That HACA, or the lot owners, are in no way obligated legally or morally for the completion or maintenance of the roads.
* * * * *
Thus endeth the story of the roads to date.
Meanwhile, every recurring gully-washer of a storm does its bit to further end the roads. Their deterioration since September 20 1960 is evidence of their insufficient engineering and inefficiency of construction.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - lquade - 04-29-2014
well, gosh, what to do. I am one who faithfully pays my road dues and have offered to fund other small things, such as a strip of yellow reflecting tape down the center of the corner at the start of road one as i have seen several cars go off there. people dont seem to understand the one way road doesnt start until you get around that blind corner. i also said i would help pay to reset our lovely rock that some punks must have pulled over. no answer from the road committee at all, either written, or when i attended the meeting. it is very sad, but as a senior lady i really cant help repair the road. i understand peter and sheldon throwing up their hands, but really disagree when a punawebber says it is not a danger because it is. when the holes are full of water, no matter how slow you drive you can damage your car. especially at night. i wish they would make the dues mandatory, 60 bucks a year is really a small amount but if everyone paid we could have driveable roads again. and yes, i say road one even though i dont consider myself a newbie. where the heck did that bit of nonsense come from anyway...
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Delta9r - 04-29-2014
I too remember when 1 rd was all gravel, and 8 had one lane paved nearly to E. The puddles near the end of the pavement would get really deep after heavy rains.
I seem to remember something about the people on numbered roads getting together to purchase material for fill on their roads, and people using whatever means to spread/level that material, and this was all OK with the road corp.
I also remember there being material available at the HACA center to be used by anyone who wished to patch their desired road[s] but they had to transport and level the material themselves.
I also remember Tim, the first house on the mauka side of 8, using his tractor to scrape & smooth out B road, but since He & Karen put their house on the market I haven't seen him around.
In the past none of the above mentioned road work was any big deal to the road corp, but since I have distanced myself from the politics of HA I am certainly out of the loop.
As for my "newcomers" comment, said comment is not ethnically inclusive/exclusive. "Local" people from Hilo are "newcomers" in my book, and there is no negative connotation in my use of the term. I have a new neighbor from O'ahu, and even though he's "local" I can't stand him and his "Honolulu style."
Lastly, I remember being pleased that the hill going up F from 8 used to be treacherous and as a result kept a lot of the riffraff out. When the PEAR was shoved down our throats the resulting influx of miscreants brought burglars to my house on more than one occasion.
I guess that's why we call em "the good old days."
"Life is labor, and all that is good in life comes from that labor..."
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Delta9r - 04-30-2014
A 4x4 can make it from C to B on 2, and I don't know how well plain rock will hold up to a flash flood coming down that channel.
There's also an egress point past 2 on B where it hooks into the old cane road, but sometimes the people who paved the road to their house will block the road with big boulders, and someone else keeps opening the road up, so it may, or may not, be passable at this time.
I disagree about the mandatory road dues thing. We used to have signage along 1, 8, 9, 11, roads warning that the roads are private and travelers use the roads at their own peril. Somehow the signs all disappeared as the years went by, and I don't know the legal particulars regarding the protections, if any, afforded by those signs.
Changing the the rules to enact mandatory road fees might be a battle...
"Life is labor, and all that is good in life comes from that labor..."
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Bullwinkle - 04-30-2014
fixing roads - the sad thing is - one may fix roads with good intent - and be sued if some one else happens to drive across with bad results
no good samaritan law for road fixes - sometimes its easier not to have assets - lament
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Tink - 04-30-2014
My apologies, Kupuna, perhaps I wasn't specific enough and left much gray area between the lines, and will be more specific now. First, if I was your neighbor, I would patch you potholes, mow you lawn, fix your wobbly handrail out of high respect to you as an elder, expecting nothing more then your company and a cup of tea while you talk knowledge, or talk story. That's how I am, that's community. I can see why Peter and company threw up there hands in defeat, as sixty bucks a year may have covered the cost of maintenance when it was first instilled, but not today! The roads are deteriorating exponentially as the fees just don't come close to properly maintain them, only enough money to band aid them. My comment of stop paying, and patch the road in front of you was meant to put things in perspective. Once you go to town and buy a bag or two of asphalt patch, come back, put stuff in hole, you would realize sixty bucks a year is cheaper. The fees have to be adjusted, as asphalt deteriorates with rain and sun, and it is an oil based product (read cost of oil today).Sun breaks down the oils that bind the rock together, and the rain washes it away. Asphalt mixture dries up like skin from a harsh soap, gets "gator back" (area that look like alligator skin, lots of chunks, but still somewhat intact), and eventually turn to pothole. Long cracks also appear, letting the rainwater seep under and weaken the gravel base, and another pothole pops up. Roads have to be constantly patched with hot tar for the cracks, and slurry seal or chip seal (slurry seal with gravel) on top of the asphalt to keep them in good shape so a pothole only shows up once in a while. The slurry seal is like a "conditioner" to replenish the oils in the asphalt, so it stays flexible and waterproof. This is all a full time job for a large subdivision, and an expensive one at that with material costs. My comment of the newer ones demanding action, but not help, comes from my jaded eyes I guess, as I have seen all too many come with mainland thinking, but want island rural with mainland amenities. You just don't get everything you want! Back on the mainland I lived in a small community in the redwoods. Silicon Valley types would move in with their BMW's and Hummers, to be "one with the redwoods". Until the first storm. Then they would freak out because the redwood tree dropped their seed and leaves on their leased car, and in comes a private logger and their lot is clear cut. Their response is, " their are plenty more around me". Collecting road maintenance fees from them was also a big challenge. When the only bridge on and off our island needed major repair from storm damage they thought the piddly road fees paid for that also. That give me stink eye and jaded mind, need to work on that. I hope this puts a little more light on my comments, and apologies again.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Bullwinkle - 04-30-2014
Balls said the queen, balls ..... if i had balls I'd be the king.....
meaning - come on out for a while and see how things work out here - anything else is opinion and good wishes
liability laws apply out here as well
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 04-30-2014
quote:
the people who paved the road to their house will block the road with big boulders
Ahem. That's County pavement, funded by State, via the Roads In Limbo program.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Tink - 04-30-2014
Bullwinkle...If directed at me, you don't know me. I have lived on just about every island that is inhabitable, being chased off by the" Disneyfication" called tourism. I spent my summers as a young child with my great aunt in Honolulu's "jungle" (area by channel maulka side Waikiki), after Army lived on Maui 'till the mayor claimed he was going to cater to the "young urban professional" tourist, and watched the island die until I could' stand it anymore. Sewage stink, dead fish, Marine Sanctuary (Molokini) abused, and still abused by too many people in the "pool". Kauai was nice and quiet until they allowed waterskiing on the Wailua river. On to Nicaragua where the roads have rain ruts so deep they rip off mirrors and door handles if you fall into one. Life was simple and good, but government not too friendly to outsiders. So, back to mainland temporary again to save up $$$ ( part time work at min wage doesn't cut it) and was considering BI for a somewhat remote, community oriented (read all work together to survive). You seem to have a bit of a grudge on outsiders, but it is the elected officials that allowed big bucks hotel chains come in for the sake of tourism, but don't demand they pay $$$$ for sewage treatment upgrades, highway maintenance, fire stations for emergency response, etc. to handle the population surge during the "season", and the added expense of upkeep of the islands from all the people. My opinions are based on my experiences in life, not trying to change things, just giving the people "another view" on the situation to ponder, hopefully creating a solution for them. Mahalo
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Bullwinkle - 04-30-2014
just an observation - from some one who has spent a lot of time off grid...(being self sufficient - thats the name of the game out here)....if the shoe fits have at it
if it does not - give it a pass
bottom line on taxes as low as they are out here - one cant expect or demand infrastructure - Maui is a better place for that concept imho