+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay (/showthread.php?tid=21524)
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - TomK - 02-18-2020
kalianna - that's what you would think, isn't it? The problem in this case is that the land involved is state so it involves them (BLNR, DLNR. DHHL) and the county who also enforces laws. For instance, if a serious crime happened on DHHL or DLNR land on the island, then yes, you would expect the county police to investigate. If we (i.e., observatory staff) have to call 911 because a crime is taking place on the mountain, then it's the county police who turn up - or at least are supposed to. It's about 50/50 if they will.
But in this case it seems different, and I'm not even going to try and explain it because I simply don't understand how the jurisdiction works. All I really know is it seems to have cost $15 million dollars and nothing has happened.
However, in the end it's state land, so I think county police enforce the laws but for civil law it's the state. Best to ask a lawyer though!
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - randomq - 02-19-2020
So for any group blocking a road on state land, it's a civil matter and county police don't have jurisdiction? That just doesn't sound right. Why don't you astronomers and other folks "with standing" lawyer up like the protesters and hold the state accountable? It seems that's the only way to get action (or selective inaction) from our government here...
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - kalakoa - 02-19-2020
for any group blocking a road on state land, it's a civil matter and county police don't have jurisdiction?
County police do not have "right of entry" into State-owned land. It's a Hawaii thing.
lawyer up like the protesters and hold the state accountable?
Those who are legally "in the right" don't dare assert those rights for fear of retaliation. Also a Hawaii thing.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/02/19/hawaii-news/house-cuts-funding-for-tmt-enforcement-from-state-budget/?HSA=1758bbe7b511f678a389a1069d0bbe2e47509313
House lawmakers approved a rough draft of the new state operating budget Tuesday that cut more than $65 million in funding that Gov. David Ige requested for law enforcement operations to cope with disturbances such as the ongoing protests over the Thirty Meter Telescope, according to House Finance Committee Chairwoman Sylvia Luke.
Seems like $65M would be more than enough to build a new road on State-owned land.
Luke said that does not mean lawmakers are giving up on TMT, but “TMT is just one part of the state’s needs.â€
“There’s tons of state needs. At this point in time we cannot commit that significant amount of money without some kind of a plan,†she said.
Kim does have a plan, though: grab the money.
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - TomK - 02-19-2020
"Why don't you astronomers and other folks "with standing" lawyer up like the protesters and hold the state accountable?"
The current MK observatories certainly considered legal action when our access was completely blocked last summer, but 1) it's expensive and it's not as if the observatories have "deep pockets"; 2) it could turn out to be counter-productive.
As for TMT, they are a separate organization and are not part of the MK Observatories. The MK Observatories wouldn't file suit on TMT's behalf because they don't have standing. Any legal action brought by the TMT because they can't start construction would have to be filed by them. Whether that will happen or not is anyone's guess.
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - randomq - 02-20-2020
It's the right thing to do. The protesters are just idiots taking advantage, but the state needs to be held accountable.
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - kalakoa - 02-20-2020
the state needs to be held accountable
State doesn't do "accountability", everything here is "go along to get along".
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - TomK - 02-20-2020
"It's the right thing to do. The protesters are just idiots taking advantage, but the state needs to be held accountable."
I agree it's the right thing to do. But unless something changes in the next few months, the TMT is the only organization that has the money to sue the state, and then that'll only happen if all their partners agree. As I've said in the past, the MK Observatories are caught in the crossfire. All they want is continued access to their facilities on the mountain and to continue exploring the universe.
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - Guest - 02-21-2020
Go ahead and play the victim here too.
It takes two or more to tango and We may have found ourselves in this current standoff due in part because of the current MK Observatories. Many promises have been broken or many lies have been told by the current MK observatories in the past. The TMT project is facing this reaction from the many oppressed but they knew it was possible from the beginning. Maybe the Astronomy community underestimated this relatively small group and social media who have oppossed this project and the many before. T&O
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - kalakoa - 02-21-2020
Many promises have been broken or many lies have been told
Four lanes to Pahoa, anyone?
Or is it only "broken promises and lies" when a telescope is involved?
underestimated this relatively small group and social media who have oppossed this project
I ask, again, where this "relatively small group" thinks the money will come from once they drive away all development.
RE: Kim wants another 2-month TMT delay - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-21-2020
this "relatively small group" thinks the money will come from
Their plan is to destroy the village in order to save it.
In reality they only have half a plan, which is to destroy the village.