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+--- Thread: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island (/showthread.php?tid=9304)
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - MarkP - 09-22-2011
Carey:
That is a reasonable point of view and helps to explain why an otherwise reasonable guy like Oink would hold what I consider to be an unreasonable and shortsighted view. Perhaps I am being too harsh though. It is true that if the deer are here then those who like to hunt will benefit from the hunting opportunity. Looking at the big picture though that potential benefit to a few would be hugely outweighed by the tremendous cost to the majority of Big Island residents.
So as far as that goes it is true that there are benefits to having deer to hunt. No one should be denounced for stating the obvious. By the same token it is in my opinion equally true that those benefits don't hold a candle to the costs associated with having the deer here.
Now it seems to me that what we lack is an effective predator. Hawaii had no native land mammals to speak of, only birds. We are troubled now by goats, pigs, donkeys, and now deer who range through an environment that ranges from sea level to the mountains and from wet tropical forests to dry open deserts. What predator would thrive in both the forest and the desert, eat all these animals, and consider a Nene goose as too small to bother with?
Jaguars!
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - freestate - 09-22-2011
Fantastic post, Carey. And much more diplomatic than my reaction, kudos to you.
I forget that some post here and do not live on island.
Living on the continent is a different reality regarding wildlife. We just returned from three weeks on the mainland, New England and So-Cal and the biodiversity there is pretty staggering now that I'm accustomed to the Big Island.
I just keep thinking about how much a problem deer are on the mainland even in areas where there is hunting culture and healthy predation (where I'm from in the Midwest). To think what would happen on an island with only sport and game hunters to control the population isn't a pretty thought.
Especially when you add in the issue of trying to protect the native ecosystem. That is one area where I support the idea of "keep Hawaii, Hawaii".
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - oink - 09-22-2011
It's all about making lemonade and in the current job market very tasty lemonade. If the deer are already here it could be extremely expensive to eradicate them and very likely unsuccessful. Hunting, if encouraged, can prove very effective at keeping the population under control. Whitetail were being driven towards extinction in the Eastern U.S. by hunting before hunting restrictions were imposed. Now, with a greatly reduced hunting culture in the U.S. and widespread anti-hunting attitudes, along with the urbanization of the populace, the deer population has exploded. Hunting can provide an effective population control. Bottom line is you can possibly squander already insufficient state monetary resources in a futile eradication attempt or you can make lemonade.
Oh, and I have done a fair amount of hiking in all elevations of the B.I.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - freestate - 09-22-2011
Oink, how about protecting the livelihood of those that would pay the price for your "lemonade" solution?
I'm not trying to start a fight with you despite my initial tone. It seems you are stuck on pointing out the idea that there is an opportunity to make money off of Axis Deer. Nobody denies that. You could make money off the problem by exploiting it.
However as its been pointed out the damage to locals would far exceed the benefits for the few who would profit.
And I would argue that especially in the current job market propagating a damaging invasive species would only make things more difficult for many farmers and homeowners. The resources of many would be diverted to dealing with the deer.
Axis Deer are not like other invasives on the island yet. They are still in small enough numbers to be eradicated. Do you think people would have supported a Coqui eradication effort with the benefit of hindsight?
In regards to your hiking comment.
I like cars but it doesn't make me an automotive engineer.
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - Obie - 09-22-2011
Indeed whitetail populations have exploded in the east.
Just 40 years ago there were 17,000 deer in Ohio, recently that number has reached 700,000. In addition to damage to crops and landscaping, deer are causing more than 25,000 traffic accidents in Ohio each year.Those car-deer collisions carried a cost of $71 million.
Do we want this on the Big Island ?
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - senkahele - 09-22-2011
Mahalo to you all for your feedback on this vital issue. Open dialogue on this topic is what we need in order to get information out to our communities and to have a fuller understanding of the issue of axis deer.
For those of you who feel strongly, as I do, about the potential hazards that an established population of axis deer can have on the Big Island and our communities, I would encourage you to write to our Governor as well as Mr. William Aila, Chair of the Department of Land and Natural Resources to express your opinions on this issue. With the number of issues facing the state, your letters can emphasize the importance of this issue for those of us living on the Big Island. Our collective voice can be instrumental in highlighting this issue for administrative action. I have included their addresses below for your convenience.
The Honorable Neil Abercrombie
Office of the Governor
Executive Chambers, State Capitol
415 S. Beretania Street
Honolulu, HI 96813
Chair William J. Aila, Jr.
Department of Land and Natural Resources
P.O. Box 621
Honolulu, HI 96809
dlnr@hawaii.gov
Mahalo again to you all for your active participation in the civic process.
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - Midnight Rambler - 09-23-2011
quote:That's something I've suggested for a while. And an important consideration - unlike all other big cats or wolves and other wild dogs, jaguar attacks on humans are almost unheard of. What could possibly go wrong?
Originally posted by MarkP
Now it seems to me that what we lack is an effective predator. Hawaii had no native land mammals to speak of, only birds. We are troubled now by goats, pigs, donkeys, and now deer who range through an environment that ranges from sea level to the mountains and from wet tropical forests to dry open deserts. What predator would thrive in both the forest and the desert, eat all these animals, and consider a Nene goose as too small to bother with?
Jaguars!
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - missydog1 - 09-23-2011
You guys need to think outside the box!
POLAR BEARS! I hear they slipped their cages on Oahu. [
]
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - oink - 09-23-2011
Good ole boys would fill that environmental niche.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Threat of Axis Deer on the Big Island - Midnight Rambler - 09-23-2011
quote:It is encouraged*, and hasn't had any effect on the destruction caused by pigs, goats, sheep, mouflon, or deer on the other islands. What on earth makes you think deer here would be any different?
Originally posted by oink
It's all about making lemonade and in the current job market very tasty lemonade. If the deer are already here it could be extremely expensive to eradicate them and very likely unsuccessful. Hunting, if encouraged, can prove very effective at keeping the population under control.
* in some places and some animals, especially for pigs - but it's the politically powerful hunters' associations that are the biggest proponents of restrictions
quote:Have you been to Pohakuloa and Puu Waawaa and seen the contrast between fenced and unfenced areas? Where there are no seedlings and no branches below 4 feet in the unfenced land, and nothing but alien grasses on the ground? While inside the fences, akoko and mamane trees go wild like they used to do?
Oh, and I have done a fair amount of hiking in all elevations of the B.I.