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+--- Thread: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons (/showthread.php?tid=12350)
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Wao nahele kane - 08-13-2013
Interestingly geothermal energy is still within its infancy, the process is simple enough but its commodity potential has yet to be fully utilized or realized (partially because we often think from experience and not innovatively). Here as an example as we can look back to the history of petroleum as a possible comparative to what we may see occur with future geothermal advancements. I like number 5, it reminds me of the Hydrogen Sulfide bi product in a way.
"5. When Gasoline was so Cheap it was Worthless
During the early days of Standard Oil (this was before cars became popular), kerosene was the name of the game. Gasoline, a by-product of petroleum distillation to produce kerosene, didn't have much demand. It was a cheap product used to treat lice and a solvent to remove grease stains from clothing ... In fact, gas was so cheap that oil companies used to dump it in rivers!"
Look how far we have come and what we have learned since the first oil wells were created, enjoy -
http://www.neatorama.com/2008/08/06/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-oil/
- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Rourk - 08-13-2013
I don't know if they are pumping water in and out for Geo in Puna like they are by the Salton Sea in California which seems to be causing seismic activity?
http://news.ucsc.edu/2013/07/geothermal-earthquakes.html
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - kalakoa - 08-14-2013
Dealing with the energy industry is basically getting "conned" by a bunch of "pros".
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Punababa - 08-14-2013
quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
Is it possible to compile such a list amongst members on this forum?
The pros and cons may extend into reasonable applications/resultants.
Make a list and post it on this thread and be reasonably creative.
- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Punababa - 08-14-2013
Thank you guys for bringing this issue in the public Domain, the Pros are as follows
1- Possibly Relatively Clean and cheap source of energy
Cons are as follows
1- Emissions like Hydrogen Sulfide , Sulfur dioxide could have detrimental effects on public health .
2- Subsidence ( Ground Sinking) could be a major issue for residents close to these Producer Wells.
3- If the Wells are Fracked opposed to Perforated , will certainly tilt the balance in favor of the opposition.
4- Ground water Pollution is a Major Concern.
Unknown and unanswered issues addressed in this forum are
1- Not sure if HELCO would subsidize the Puna Residents with cheaper rates
2- Current emissions levels of h2s and so2 in PPM not PPB ( this can be misleading)
3- Projected emission level numbers if the project is implemented
4- Will there be Continuous ground water Monitoring , will there be dedicated wells testing pre and post water samples , will the results be in the public Domain.
5- Will the Well geological Logs in 3D or 4D, available for public scrutiny.
6- Will there be continuous Subsidence Monitoring Program if so will the data be available for public scrutiny.
Having said this , the reality is that we need energy to survive and the Puna Residents should do an honest Cost Benefit analysis based on Scientific Data, it is possible to have a relatively safe operation without significant impact to the people and environment , the technology is sound and proven . My personal fear and opposition if there is any is that the geology of the big island is in a constant state of Flux, all the existing data models worldwide are for relatively a more stable geological environment. Hawaii is the youngest land Mass in the world and still growing , I do not think it will be possible to Model the future geologically this is the Major issue and danger, if anyone has an answer would love to hear it.
This is my humble layman opinion based on some personal experience, it should not be construed as an expert or authoritative, It’s an opinion of a concerned future Lower Puna Resident
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - snorkle - 08-14-2013
Pros:
Not oil
Cons:
Located on the rift of an active Volcano
Industrializes Puna Makai
Injects chemicals into the ground that may eventually leach onto our ocean reef systems.
Distribution still relies on antiquated "grid delivery system" that is subject to failure, high maintenance, expensive to expand, and ugly/dangerous.
Re-enforces HELCO monopoly.
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The technology exists to have Hybrid "mini grid" and individual systems that utilize solar/wind/bio fuel generators. This has the added benefit of creating a market for locally produced biofuels.
As more and more people break from the HELCO monopoly, prices will rise for the rest. Eventually, HELCO and it's 100+ year old distribution technology will collapse into dust as people are "empowered" by modern technology.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - snorkle - 08-14-2013
Pahoated says:
"Third, the grid and electric power infrastructure are considered National Security assets"
______________________________________________________________________
Me:
Why is this? Oh yeah, the whole system is vulnerable to not only catastrophic failure from a storm or other natural disaster; But from terrorism. Maybe you should call it a National Security liability.
Seems to me another reason the grid delivery system is antiquated.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Frank - 08-14-2013
quote from pahoated "There is 38MW at that node. 30MW is coming out at 42 cents per kw-hr because it is under ACC contract, tied to the price of a barrel of oil. 8MW is coming out at non-ACC geothermal industry standard of 10 cents per kw-hr. Solomon did manage to get one bill through requiring more transparency from Hawaiian Electric. From that, we now know all of Puna uses about 6MW to 9MW peak load. What we don't know is how HELCO is metering the rates originating from a single node."
it'd be perfect if... "8MW is coming out at non-ACC geothermal industry standard of 10 cents per kw-hr." were applied to PUNA! whoo-tah!
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - dragon2k - 08-14-2013
Had an involved discussion about this at Uncle Roberts tonight and all agreed the most pressing issue right now, the most practical issue right now is the state of the grid in lower Puna. As some know, and all should know, when Helco fails to upkeep their transmission lines or the Kapoho substation goes offline, PGV is left with spinning turbines that need to vent. Helco is not motivated to fix this, but enough pressure on the PUC should bear some fruit.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - DaVinci - 08-14-2013
I'd like to thank Wao Nahele Kane and Rene for contributing to this thread armed only with facts and serious advocacy. You are both obviously arguing from different sides of the debate, but you are both also bringing knowledge and wisdom to this contentious topic without talking down to any members of the community. Mahalo. You both will continue to have my undivided attention. .