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+--- Thread: Hawaiian Acres Roads (/showthread.php?tid=13536)
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Tink - 04-30-2014
Off grid and self sufficient is my game, so thank you! (Currently living "off grid" in a self sufficient community in the Sierra foothills near Brownsville, we barter between us ( one grows veggies, one raises chickens, another beef, etc.)Yes, low tax base means less infrastructure. Recession has made it quite clear that you pay more, but expect less. I don' t expect infrastructure upgrades with taxes as low as they are, but to be more self sufficient in working together as a community to reach a common goal that betters all in the community without County assistance, and also building community. Some people on the forum would like to see the County take over the road situation, but the County is obligated by Federal mandate to provide sidewalks, ADA ramps at intersections, etc. on "public" roads. How do they get the funding? Bond votes, or property tax assessments! You may not see these improvements, but their is a "drop dead" date that all States have to conform to due to the Federal Disabilities Act. So, in short, once my property sells here, the challenge is accepted, and look forward to working beside you so you can teach me the "island way", as It looks like I may need a refresher course.
Are you a human being, or a human doing?
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 04-30-2014
The access from 3 to 2 where B ends
That connector is not part of Hawaiian Acres, nor is it a County or State road, nor is it private property.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Delta9r - 04-30-2014
This egress point of which I speak runs perpendicular from the highway, at "Enos Rd," heading East, the road is paved up to the point where the folks' who paved the road have their house. Past their house the road is old Puna Sugar Company road, gravel, and meets up with A Rd between 1 & 2.
You can see the satellite imagery from the Google Maps page I've linked to previously.
There are several lots between the road paver's house and Hawaiian Acres' A Rd.
In the past this point of egress had been hidden by bulldozing and water and was inaccessible to ATV due to a berm & a waiawi thicket, as well as the original course of the river diverted by AMFAC. (Swampy)
The recently (in the past few years) opened entry/exit to A Rd between 1 & 2 from the highway was the result of the subdivision of old cane land into ag lots. When they did the bulldozing, they actually strayed onto uncle Patrick's property, as well as blocked B Rd ahead of where it connects to South Enos Rd. (AKA "Small Valley")
If B Rd turns into A Rd makai of 2, then this portion is actually a public right of way due to this path being the old Puna Volcano Road, although I'm not sure about ownership of this portion, if not the County, then it might be Hawaiian Acres.
I understand A Road to be part of the 72 miles of the collectively owned road TMK, but since nearly all of A Road is unmaintained and A Road overlays the Old Puna Volcano Road, who knows?
Google Maps Overview of area
Paved portion of road I'm referring to
"Life is labor, and all that is good in life comes from that labor..."
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 05-01-2014
I spoke at length with DLNR, DOT, and PW.
Enos Rd is officially a "Road In Limbo" (see RIL inventory). When County accepted a State grant for pavement, that portion which was paved became an official County road. The remainder is still "in limbo". Residents of the paved section did not pave it themselves. (Side note: PW was surprised that they had "gotten their speed bumps already", which suggests that no work order exists for this construction.)
Per both the original Land Court subdivision and current TMK maps, Road B (and Road 2) both stop before the Old Volcano Trail, which is a separate "road" not currently claimed by State or County nor attached to any TMK. The nice folks at DLNR suggested that the road could be made official if its existence can be documented prior to the 1892 Highways Act, however, this recognition might not include vehicular traffic.
Those of you studying the TMK maps closely may discover yet another interesting artifact: parcel 1-6-13-56. This lot is mauka of the first lot on Road 1, meaning that it was created without any road frontage, which is illegal under County code; it now enjoys an easement along the Old Volcano Trail, granted by the very State that now disavows any ownership interest in said Trail.
Related example: 1-6-13-21 is landlocked (no frontage) ... unless the Old Volcano Trail is actually a "road", as suggested by the situs address for that parcel.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 05-01-2014
Road 1 or 1 Rd ,the worst paved dangerous road in HA.
Remember: those of you who choose to live in private subdivisions and enjoy the "cheap land" and "low taxes" have agreed to substandard infrastructure by doing so.
The "private" roads are not eligible for any County or State funds; furthermore, County code specifically states that County cannot provide any "support" unless/until these roads are brought up to County engineering specifications and given outright to County.
As an extra added bonus, the minimum easement for a County road is 60 feet, which is simply not available unless the makai property owners grant (or have seized via eminent domain) 25 feet from the front of their respective lots -- HELCO poles are five feet from the mauka boundary of the roads lot, so you can't just take 10 feet from every lot owner unless HELCO moves all their poles -- and there's no utility easement along the lot frontage to accomodate these.
The other "workaround" would be to designate everything an "alleyway" such that the 60-foot easement is not required.
(Note that while Enos Rd is only 40 feet wide, it is magically exempt from County code under the RIL program.)
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - Delta9r - 05-01-2014
I think that when the county hears "Enos Rd" they are referring to the mauka portion which heads toward Mauna Kea, and not the portion across the highway heading to Hawaiian Acres.
This portion that heads to HA has no signage, and I don't remember seeing any speed bumps on this road.
It wouldn't surprise me that the county would be ignorant of the road in question.
Also, you don't need a 4 wheel drive to travel on B rd between 3 & 2.
On a somewhat related issue, halfway between the numbered roads, between the back of each lot, is an easement, but I'm not sure how wide this easement is.
You can see where the bulldozer pushed along this easement in some of the less vegetated areas, and you can also see these easements on Google maps.
Vaguely visible easement between lots
"Life is labor, and all that is good in life comes from that labor..."
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - kalakoa - 05-01-2014
There is no recorded easement; the visible trail is simply where the bulldozers were driven to set the back property pins.
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - 2bad4u - 05-01-2014
one reason could be both HACA and HARC have recently been served and have "legal action" against them . HARC hired atty P. Booth to represent them. To date HARC has spent $5000.00 of community road funds to pay for Mr. Booths services, as they are not insured . At the HARC April meeting one board member stated that he had no problem spending every cent of the road fund , on the legal fees.
HARC and HACA are also suing one another as well.
HACA purchased liability insurance with community funds subsequent to receiving a legal "cease and Desist" demand .
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - pahoated - 05-01-2014
The road situation around here is pretty easy to understand.
There are State Highways and County Roads that are maintained by the state and county government, respectively.
If you look at each of these developments, there is a boundary line at their exterior. Thee roads within that boundary line are private roads and the responsibility and financial expense belongs to the development.
There are a few developments with main roads that have been accepted by the county and those are being maintained by the county. The county is gradually accepting more roads but with facts like only 20% of HPP is occupied, make it financially impossible to pave all these failed developments, if anybody cared to do a detailed look.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
RE: Hawaiian Acres Roads - dmbwest - 05-01-2014
OK ! >>> Peter !!! Mahalo !!! Never knew your name but now can say thanks besides yelling out the window to you. You guys always did a great job.
Delta9r, you right ... on no need 4wd here ... Just a little skill / patience and be willing to actually use that big round thing between ones hands. Oh and the big slushy thing between the ears too.
aloha,
pog