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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 10-13-2016
That article should read some Native Hawaiians are against the TMT. It will be interesting to read the witness statements when they are published.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 10-13-2016
Agreed about the "some" comment, Eric1600, but I meant the summary of the TMT's options was a fair summary. I thought some might find it interesting as a couple of posters here were insisting the TMT would go to a site in the Indian Himalayas.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 10-14-2016
Build it, and call out the Texas National Guard to defend it with live ammo. After a few weeks the crazies and their lawyers will drift away like a bad smell.
Star gazing is at the core of Hawaiian culture. Hawaii would not even be inhabited by Hawaiians if not for a culture of stargazing and navigation based upon precise measurements of the night sky. The protestors stand for nothing of value or consequence to the people of Hawaii, native or non-native. They are narcissistic frauds. All of them.
---------------------------
You can't fix Samsara.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 10-14-2016
Hawaii would not even be inhabited by Hawaiians if not for a culture of stargazing and navigation
Logical conclusion: the protectors are going nowhere.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 10-14-2016
the summary of the TMT's options was a fair summary.
Yes, thanks for posting TomK. It appears India is out of consideration for the TMT as it's too far from a port, making transportation into the remote Himalaya mountains problematic. It also has a short construction season, stretching the time needed to complete the project.
The article also mentioned:
The TMT is one of three giant telescopes expected to dominate ground-based optical astronomy beginning in the next decade.
This seems to indicate terrestrial observatories are not obsolete, in fact, they continue play an important role in astronomy now and into the near future.
No fathers or mothers think their own children ugly; and this self-deceit is yet stronger with respect to the offspring of the mind. -Miguel de Cervantes, novelist (1547-1616)
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 10-14-2016
The company I worked for opened a large design center in India. The goal was to do both software and hardware in Bangalore. However there was so much corruption (we had a strict no corruption ethics policy) that we couldn't get materials in or out of India. This was 15+ years ago, however, we were forced to convert to all software there. I can't imagine trying to pioneer a new industry there with almost all the hardware imported and moved to remote Himalaya areas. Those roads made the old saddle road look tame.
There are going to be some pretty hard core people against anything that is done on Maunakea. They are also emboldened by the Dakota protesters now, which they identify with strongly.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - MarkP - 10-14-2016
quote:
Originally posted by imagtek
The protestors stand for nothing of value or consequence to the people of Hawaii, native or non-native. They are narcissistic frauds. All of them.
I know I should be gentler somehow in my assessment but this is how I feel too. My gut feeling was that I didn't need to hear that from Harry and that I didn't really agree with him in the sense that while I know some people feel that way they are hugely in the minority. Valuing your traditions is good but living in the modern world is essential. If one has to give it should be the traditions. I also don't think that the values espoused by the protesters accurately represent "Hawaiian" values and traditions. I sincerely doubt that what the present day protesters are doing aligns with any impartial definition of Hawaiian values that would mesh with history.
I guess I pulled the comment about Harry Kim in from another thread that I just read.
If a woman is sitting next to a man on the bus she could just start screaming things like "Oh my gawd! What are you doing? Stop it! Help!" and most everyone on the bus would assume that she was a victim and would condemn the man sitting next to her. This is based purely on cultural biases. This is the situation that exists with a small Native Hawaiian contingent vs the rest of society. Today they are the woman screaming on the bus and the TMT is the man sitting next to her. Most of society doesn't know what is happening but they want to help and do the right thing. Given the present day biases that means instantly coming to the aid of the protesters even to the point that questioning their story is verboten. The damage that can and very well may be done in this instance is shocking.
I don't feel like I know a lot of Native Hawaiians but I bet I know more than I am aware of because they are not wearing period clothing inconsistent with either present day or day-before-the-overthrow standards and they are not getting in my face about their Hawaiian-ness. I did ask one lady I work with how she felt about the TMT and what came through was that she didn't want to let anybody down or not do her part. I think that the vast majority of Native Hawaiians are like this and there is the risk of the bull being led by the nose in this manner. In fact I think that is what is happening.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 10-14-2016
For what it is worth here is the testimony from the native Hawaiians who support TMT as part of the PUEO group.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2016/10/2016.10.11.-PUEO-Submission-of-Witness-Statements.pdf
I stumbled upon it by clicking through the tabs and finding all the witness lists, etc. here:
http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/evidentiary-hearing-submittals/
Some of the testimony from the protestors is extremely subjective. Like building a new Ahu and claiming it is now sacred, sorry, can't build here.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 10-14-2016
The latest article from Civil Beat:
"The Stage Is Set For Tuesday’s Thirty Meter Telescope Hearing"
http://www.civilbeat.org/2016/10/the-stage-is-set-for-tuesdays-thirty-meter-telescope-hearing/
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 10-15-2016
Wow, strong words.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2016/10/Doc-369-UHH.pdf
"Applicant University of Hawaii at Hilo's statement of position regarding petitioners' renewed motion to disqualify Hearing Officer [Doc. 340] and notice of withdrawal of counsel [Doc. 341]; Declaration of counsel; Exhibits 1-7; COS"
This is a response from a UHH lawyer to various requests to have the hearing office removed and also to Wurdeman withdrawing from the hearing. The PDF file is read-only so can't copy any text here, but it's worth a read.