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+--- Thread: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons (/showthread.php?tid=12350)
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Punababa - 08-15-2013
A word of caution, Puna residents should not be too focused on Subsidized rates only , a holistic approach to the problem is a wise track to follow, the technical details mentioned in my previous post is in the Public Domain in California , the very least this model should be emulated , my personal take is given the sensitivity of the geology of the big Island the standards should much higher than that of California or any other part of the World.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - opihikao - 02-09-2014
Punababa says: (*Snipped/Bold by me - Posted - 08/14/2013 : 07:31:53)
Unknown and unanswered issues addressed in this forum are
1- Not sure if HELCO would subsidize the Puna Residents with cheaper rates
2- Current emissions levels of h2s and so2 in PPM not PPB ( this can be misleading)
3- Projected emission level numbers if the project is implemented
4- Will there be Continuous ground water Monitoring , will there be dedicated wells testing pre and post water samples , will the results be in the public Domain.
5- Will the Well geological Logs in 3D or 4D, available for public scrutiny.
6- Will there be continuous Subsidence Monitoring Program if so will the data be available for public scrutiny.
_____________________________________________________________________
(Bold portion) What if the Puna residents in the "relocation zone" were offered a discount on their monthly HELCO bill? What if the County, instead of purchasing the properties on the relocation list, offered the first 500-600KW hours free to the resident? That would be a direct benefit to the host community. Equates to a little more than $200.00 a month.
May also prompt the County to utilize the geothermal royalties for more than just purchasing property at 130% of value, which perhaps may end up saving money if this choice is given to the residents.
We need to do something, these HELCO bills are out of control!!! Thoughts?
JMO.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - pander75 - 02-09-2014
A discount is an interesting idea, maybe appealing to the Leilani folks, but I live on Pohoiki Rd, well within the relocation zone. We don't have power or phone service here, the line stops about 1/4 mile from my house. Ha ha, maybe they can help pay for my solar upgrade - new batteries are expensive!!
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Richard Ha - 02-09-2014
Aloha Pander75
I don't think it should matter if you are on or off grid. The idea is to compensate for the inconvenience you must bear for the benefit of many.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Bullwinkle - 02-09-2014
What if ..... Geothermal was required to pay the health insurance premiums that include good screenings as part of the mitigation?
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Guest - 02-09-2014
Well Opihikao, You brought up a very hot topic or community issue once again. Thank you for your concerns and ideas, You are very right about needing to do something (sooner than later). Our house and property is currently on this relocation list, We were told it may take 2-3 years before we can be moved. My wife and I bought here in 2001 well after geothermal was in place, But also before we had 4 kids. Really our greatest concerns about geothermal all revolves around our children now. If it were just my wife and I still, we would love the idea of discounted rates, or some free hours as an OPTION?. Our priorities have changed a bit, We now worry about the air quality for our boys who love to run several miles a week and are always outside. The higher helco rates only encourage our feelings about relocating, as we are now paying close to $300 a month. Our mortgage on this house and property use to be in the $300 a month range until we paid it off. Rent in this area use to be in the 3-5 hundred dollar range only 15 years ago. Anyway we are only one on this growing relocation list that I predict will become even greater when the word gets out about more geothermal plants in our back yards. Thanks again for the brain freeze on this topic Opihikoa, and your list of issues are all concerning especially the ground water and air ones.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - opihikao - 02-09-2014
gypsy69, we have to talk about solutions, although difficult at times. Your concerns are valid, and the health study moves forward funded by the geothermal royalties (I believe).
If the health concerns are addressed to reasonable satisfaction, would you consider such an offer? Maybe the PUC can force this issue, or the County Council can consider this an alternative to just a buy out at 130%.
Our ohana (and extended ohana) live in the area for generations, up to and including when the existing plant went in. They all still live in the area today with no health issues attributed to the plant. They all need a break in HELCO costs just like the rest of us. Good God, $460.00 a month for a family of five (5)??!? That's damn near another mortgage!
It is of the greatest concern when keiki are eating one free meal a day at school, because bills like HELCO's deplete the family funds. Just this month again, two of our tenants cannot pay their rent due to HELCO bills. What am I supposed to do when they have small children, kick them out? No way. What about our kupuna on fixed income? What are they supposed to do? Just so frustrating!
The existing plant provides royalties for the County, and this kind of discount may help alleviate the monthly costs for the "host community", as long as the health issues are addressed to a reasonable person's satisfaction.
Maybe if something like this is part of the thought process, our community (especially the kupuna and keiki) can exist with less stresses on the whole family.
JMO.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Guest - 02-09-2014
Opihikao, Again you bring up some very good yet also concerning points about the future of this community. I agree we need ideas and solutions on how to live with geothermal and Helco in the future. Geothermal has been a neighbor here for some time now, most of that time using us poor folks of Puna like guinea-pigs and breaking the trust of its neighbors. Face it this plant has been experimental turned into profitable. During this tenure has geothermal been relatively open and honest about its hazards or problems?. To many who have lived close long enough, remember fearful days and nights (blow-outs, leaks,ect) before they ever got taxed higher rates from Helco.
Possible solutions:1) Maybe the county and state should halt all new buying or building in say a 4 mile radios of Geothermal, at the same time halt any other possible (geothermal)plants in PUNA. 2) Have Quality health studies done on current plant and its impacts on environment and community. Also what impacts other larger geothermal plants may have to this area, Both positively and negatively. 3) Community safety, needs to be a Priority so proper health facilities and evacuation routs need to be put in place.
All this could take time which gives the county and state more time to decide to buy (relocate), or convince its current ballooning population of the incentives. Also keeps Pele's gifts to the WORLD longer which in turn can make it more valuable. VISION here: 10 years from now with proper planning and spending we could have a hospital,new school, health studies, Better drilling technology, lower rates in place, and a more valuable product?. Then allow Pele to vent and share her gifts to those who choose to be here. Maybe Puna could have 3 more Geothermal plants, more fish ponds, more farms, more jobs than ever before?.
Very touchy subject here because of the health concerns of some. The reality is Geothermal may indeed be the future, not only for our island and state, but for the world one day?. Our county, state and community needs to decide if we are in this for the short term or the long term?. Yet we live on a active volcano so things can change rather quickly. J.M.OPINIONS. Please lets all chime in with an idea or two on how we can make living with geothermal and helco easier in the near future. Both economically and healthier. P.S It saddens me to see all the keiki that need free lunches or shoes in the same area or locations as our states profitable experimental G.M.O papaya fields and Geothermal plant exist.
Opihikao you may need to lower your rent to your current tenants, or start excepting county housing. I personally feel your Aloha towards these folks, so I am sure they are very grateful towards you and your kindness. Our Kupuna are in a worse situation for they need care and find it much harder to move. More and more of our young are moving off for it has become to expensive with less opportunities. Which in turn leaves many of our elderly Kupuna less options in time of need. I also have seen this community change for the worse when it comes to helping the Keiki, homeless, and elderly, maybe because the folks moving here are not as attached the same way?. which is understandable?.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - lavalava - 02-09-2014
I fail to understand why people who, through their own admission, were aware of PGV when they bought their home are now eligible for a 130% buyout of that home. Without any hard, empirical data concerning serious impacts on their health, people like Gypsy are able to say "We now worry about the air quality" and receive a very generous payout.
RE: A Geothermal Energy Hawaii - pros vs. cons - Guest - 02-10-2014
lavalava, your ideas on how to help this situation did not make much sense to me. Maybe I can help clear some things for you though?. The relocation process is not what it may appear. They can pay UP to 130%, normally they pay less because the house and property has to be inspected, and pass all the requirements. My house and property will not be getting 130% just as the previous 6 relocations have not received that value. To be honest with you I don't believe that we will ever be relocated?. Now that property value is on the rise again it should be interesting to see how many new relocations we see from that list this year?.
Also it is very hard to prove your sicknesses or health problems are from Geothermal because of no real health studies since 1994(WHY?.) My wife lost her brother at 38 years young (rare untreatable cancer), I lost two good friends before the ages of 30 (rare cancers), lots of other tumor problems the closer you get to the plant. Without the proper health studies no one can prove anything to satisfy people like you. I say Geothermal has contributed to the high rate of cancer and much more. Geothermal says "oh no cant be us." Mean while people truly are sick and dying young (why?). I lived through all the leaks and mishaps, I still remember all the trees dying around geothermal, the thick rotten- egg smelling stuff we would get dropped off the bus in to, at the bottom of Leilani was no joke either. Point is we have had short and long term exposure to these leaked gasses, also mentally this situation is not good (stress kills too).
P.S. I feel that this relocation system in place is only a bluff and that many will never be relocated. The funds set aside for relocation has already been mishandled and spent wrongly. Now who really knows how much is left for its actual purpose?. I heard conflicting remaining balance figures that differed by the millions?. I fail to understand WHY?. Lots of grey areas in this relocation system?.