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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 11-07-2016
not a singular Hawaiian value system or even one Hawaiian belief system for any of us to judge, for or against
I judge, and am against, the obstructionist "protectors". Perhaps they aren't really Hawaiian?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 11-08-2016
In regards to gypsy69:
Projects like the TMT's may also be bringing over 1 million visitors a year who may also need to use their bathrooms or cause other environment damages like excess dust in sensitive areas of the mountain and upper atmosphere. A few of The other large telescopes atop Mauna Kea have already been known to spill or mishandle Mercury and sewage which makes Clean Water concerns warranted.
I scoured the EIS reports to find the "smoking gun of pollution" these "protectors" wave around and here are the facts:
* TMT Oil Leaks – During the construction phase the protesters blocked construction maintenance crews from servicing the heavy equipment, so there was some oil seepage however this was due to circumstances beyond the control of the contractors. It is a high priority to prevent any damage to the land in such a way that it can not be restored.
* Mercury Leak – TMT officials are doing what they can to mitigate potential chemical spills, in part by avoiding the most dangerous chemicals. For instance, unlike other observatories in the past, the TMT will not use mercury.
Telescopes have not had any mercury leaks since 1995 due to additional vigilance.
- CFHT – had 1 leak in 1990 consisting of 250ml (18 tablespoons) but was contained in the facility and cleaned up. Nothing reached the soil.
- KECK – 3 spills in 1995 totaling 115 ml (8 tablespoons) which were also contained and cleaned up. Nothing reached the soil.
* Propylene Glycol – used in cooling and is mostly non-toxic unless injected. In 2004 Keck had 20-30 gallons spilled, 13-20 gallons escaped facility. Spill response team isolated effected cinders outside and followed OMKM's instructions on how to handle the cinder.
* Poison Watershed – TMT is a ZERO waste facility nothing will seep into the ground. Double-walled septic tank will collect all the water, wastewater and chemicals used so they can be trucked off the mountain.
In addition a majority of the rainfall occurs at a level lower than the summit which is where the watershed receives most of it's rain.
* Sewage – Less than 10 gallons spilt – small scale problem on Maunakea compared to over 17,000 cesspools in Hawaii seeping 55 million gallons of sewage a day. (http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/big-island-lawmakers-lobbied-against-cesspool-ban)
- 1998 Subaru had a problem with its tank installation that caused a leak of 2 gallons due to a freezing event.
- 1998-2004 Caltech Submillimeter Observatory had 5 accidental small overflows resulting in 3-4 gallons total spilt.
So that's everything that the protectors are basing their arguments on -- minor problems compared to 7,000 cesspools in Hawaii seeping 55 million gallons of sewage a day.
nobody seems to have anything positive to say about the Hawaiian community
Many in the community don't know how to handle these protectors because they are so loud and often violent. In addition they also harbor feelings of discontent and are reluctant to really stand up to their own people picking a side against them. There are prominent Hawaiians testifying in support of the TMT and you should watch or read their testimony because they are inspiring people with vision and hope for future Hawaiians.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 11-08-2016
TMT Oil Leaks ... Propylene Glycol ... Sewage
Safe bet the "protectors" leaked these three things during their "occupation", and probably in larger quantities than a decade of telescope operation.
Good thing the protectors are "Hawaiian" and therefore have special rights and privileges which preclude being held accountable for their actions.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Aaron S - 11-08-2016
The current TMT CDUP contested Case petitioners filed an appeal with the Hawaii Supreme Court regarding the how the current contested case hearing process is being executed.
http://hawaiipublicradio.org/post/telescope-opponents-appeal-hawaii-supreme-court-second-time
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 11-08-2016
gypsy69 - Did you convert your house from cesspool to septic system?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-08-2016
TMT Oil Leaks ... Propylene Glycol ... Sewage
Yes, the average backyard mechanic probably drips more of those substances into the soil in a day or a week than the telescopes have in decades of use.
Telescopes have not had any mercury leaks since 1995
And when they did have small leaks they were measured in tablespoons. Mercury was not considered particularly dangerous when I was a child, it was used in dental fillings, and kids poured it back and forth between their bare hands due to it's unusual viscosity. It looked funny. Arsenic on the other hand was a well known poison since the 1800's, and yet the sugar cane plantations srayed tons of it on the crops and into the soil. People knew it was toxic, and yet said nothing. And it's still in the fields today.
I saw the tracks immediately - they swirled back & forth across the shuffled sand of the path. They seemed the design of indecision, but I am not sure. Mary Oliver
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Tink - 11-08-2016
Out of curiosity, how many of the ones giving testimony are actual registered voting residents of the island? The reason I ask this is one requested a "put me to the font of the line because I have to go home to South America". Why is it their concern? Also, why so much "fence sitting", in choosing which laws to go by that suits their need at the particular time?
A friend recently visited here, and was first interrogated by the shuttle driver if he had anything to do with TMT, and felt he would not be able to use the shuttle to his rental car location by this harrassment. When he was driving the rental car, fruit was thrown at him. Everywhere he went with his family, he was constantly asked "when are you going home?" He finally broke down and told me this, and that he will never recommend a vacation here in that there are more friendlier places to spend his tourist dollar. To describe his character, he is not white, very easy going, hardworking roofing contractor who would give the shirt off his back. What a shame he was treated this way.
Community begins with Aloha
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-08-2016
fruit was thrown at him...
"when are you going home?"
The Protectors version of Aloha Spirit.
Is this the traditional idea of Aloha that was observed by their ancestors which they follow?
Or is it the law currently on the books which states in part:
''Aloha'' means mutual regard and affection and extends warmth in caring with no obligation in return. "Aloha" is the essence of relationships in which each person is important to every other person for collective existence.
...the chief justice, associate justices, and judges of the appellate, circuit, and district courts may contemplate and reside with the life force and give consideration to the "Aloha Spirit". [L 1986, c 202, § 1]
https://www.hawaii.edu/uhwo/clear/home/lawaloha.html
Question:
As judges are permitted to consider the "Aloha Spirit" in their decisions, do you think Judge Amano, as she presides over the TMT hearing should take into account the manner in which Protectors treated other people by their actions, for example, blocking roads from free access? Or perhaps when they spoke less than truthful words with intent to harm workers and their jobs on the TMT project?
Etc?
Should Protectors be expected to act in the Spirit of Aloha?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 11-09-2016
They're not even waiting for the contested case hearing to finish before appealing its validity:
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-news/telescope-foes-appeal-hearing-decisions-hawaii-high-court
Honolulu attorney Richard Wurdeman filed the appeal Monday for members of Mauna Kea Anaina Hou and KAHEA: The Hawaiian Environmental Alliance. He's the same attorney who withdrew from representing the group in the hearings, citing scheduling conflicts. He could not immediately be reached for comment Wednesday.
That's right, folks: Wurdeman didn't have time for the contested case hearing, but he's got time for the appeal. ("Were you lying then, or are you lying now?")
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-09-2016
Richard Wurdeman filed the appeal Monday for members of Mauna Kea Anaina Hou and KAHEA: The Hawaiian Environmental Alliance.
The President of KAHEA is Kealoha Pisciotta. She ran yesterday for Hawaii 3rd District State House. She received 16% of the vote.
I saw the tracks immediately - they swirled back & forth across the shuffled sand of the path. They seemed the design of indecision, but I am not sure. Mary Oliver