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+--- Thread: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! (/showthread.php?tid=10043)
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - liskir - 05-07-2012
Why are they so afraid? Afraid enough to black out anything Ron Paul. Afraid enough to lie. Afraid enough to commit fraud.
Ron Paul OPENLY CHEATED by RNC and Romney!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Z_PMfDFLg&feature=related
Romney Camp Circulates Fake List of Paul Delegate Nominees at Maine GOP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcgOuuM1VkM&feature=youtu.be
Dirty tricks not enough to stop Paul Revolution in Maine and Nevada
http://www.examiner.com/article/dirty-tricks-not-enough-to-stop-paul-revolution-maine-and-nevada
BREAKING NEWS: Attempted Election Fraud In Nevada Conventions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgQlwqjTQr8&feature=youtu.be
http://i49.tinypic.com/2qcjxh1.jpg
"Today at the Nevada State Convention Mitt Romney supporters have been caught distributing fake delegate lists that were made to look like the real Ron Paul delegate lists. Multiple Romney supporters have also been spotted wearing Ron Paul gear and buttons while distributing these fake documents. These fake supporters and other Romney guests gained access to the convention with forged credentials and badges. Another documented attempt by the Romney group to cheat an election cycle riddled with problems from state to state. The Ron Paul folks managed to restore some semblance of order after the lunch break. It was clear the Ron Paul people were in a majority from the start as the opposition tried to cheat at every possible moment including changing quorum rules and Roberts Rules of Order. The process is still ongoing as the votes are taking place."
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - Guest - 05-07-2012
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
"Most state delegates are yet to be selected. Of those that have actually been selected Romney has 210 delegates and Paul has 137."
Could you provide a link for this? I can't find anything like it.
There's this website which Wikipedia references:
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/R
which says that Romney already has 727 "hard" delegates, so their vote is guaranteed in the first round, if I've understood it correctly.
Of course, don't give me ronpaul.com links, something a bit more independent thanks.
Unfortunately I probably could not give you an "independent" website with the right count, only the Ron Paul people are actually counting, the establishment is under the assumption that Romney has it. Fact is most state conventions have not met, so the delegates cannot have actually been awarded. The binding rules are weird, Romney probably will have 900+ bound delegates in the end, wether they are actually his or not will be a different matter. In Massachusetts the delegates are bound to Romney, but they are all Ron Paul delegates. We will only know when we get to Tampa, if Romney gets 1144 delegates to vote for him on the first vote, its over.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - csgray - 05-07-2012
I have no opinion about Ron Paul, but there have been quite a few articles in the media lately about his supporters' strategy for gaining delegates. If you go to google news and search for "Ron Paul delegates" you will find quite a few articles explaining how the delegate system works in this case.
Carol
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - dwedeking - 05-07-2012
Does it really matter who is elected king?
http://www.wedekingphotography.com
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - PaulW - 05-07-2012
If it's just Romney vs Paul and the former has received more than 4x the vote of the latter then surely it would be a travesty if somehow Paul got the nomination. I can't imagine what sort of "strategy" could be employed, besides fraud. Not that I think it will happen. I doubt Ron P will get even 5% of the vote at the convention.
ETA: Thanks, I did google it and now I understand it better. I take back the "fraud" remark, it is within the rules. Looks like it will be much more than 5%! Should make for an interesting convention.
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - PaulW - 05-07-2012
Okay, so if I've understood correctly, this is the strategy:
- Romney gets, say, 95% of the vote, Paul gets 5% in a state primary
- Romney is allocated 19 of the 20 delegates, Paul gets 1
- the Ron Paul supporters hide their allegiance and try to get chosen as Romney delegates
- at the convention they then vote for Paul instead of Romney
Is this an example of "transparent and open government" that Ron Paul talks so
much about?
Or is it the case that they will (or have to) vote Romney in
the first round only?
Very clever. Some analysts say this could be used to influence policy,
not necessarily get Paul chosen as candidate. Sure makes it easy for Obama
if Romney is forced to tack to the right.
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - Guest - 05-08-2012
No one has been hiding anything, the Paul campaign has explained this strategy since the beginning. We have won 5 states out right and will add a couple more. It is true that we have delegates in bound spots in other states as well, they did not hide, the Romney people(what little showed up) saw it happen. They will be unbound on the second vote.(if they are even bound on the first, there is some question about the rules.) We live in a republic not a democracy. The straw poll votes were just that, nothing more, the Caucus and conventions are what matter. Its the poor enthusiasm of conservatives for Mr. Obamney that has led to this problem. Obamney does not have a chance against Robama, Only Dr. Paul would win in the general, because he is actually different.
There is no difference in policy between Obamney and Robama, they both want war, deficit spending and socialism for corporations and servitude for the people.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - liskir - 05-08-2012
Is this an example of "transparent and open government"?
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/05/romney-supporter-caught-handing-out.html
The electoral college was something the establishment dreamed up to successfully get their candidate elected. Ron Paul didn't invent it. He just learned how to play their game better than they do. This whole electoral college process must be done away with along with the FEDs.
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - Guest - 05-08-2012
NO. We live in a republic not a democracy. The process was set us so that more knowledgeable people are involved. What we need to do is educate more people in the process, not eliminate the process. The process was set up this way to prevent mob rule. It is working correctly with Dr. Paul, his supporters are educated and they are winning. Please take the time to understand what the founding fathers achieved in our republic and try not to carelessly make emotional statements without this understanding. Direct Democracy is not a good thing.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Today is the Hawaii caucus 6 PM, anyone can vote! - PaulW - 05-08-2012
"The process was set us so that more knowledgeable people are involved."
That is a slippery slope indeed. Who determines who is more knowledgeable? I'm a fan of proportional representation myself. One person, one vote. Majority wins.
Some reports I read said that the Paul delegates were hiding their affiliation; if asked if they were actual Romney supporters they were to say: "I just want Obama out".
This is very clever but nonetheless very underhanded. But what can you expect from someone who published racist newsletters when it was profitable to do so, and then denied doing so when it was, again, profitable to do so?
Now, isn't this a lot more interesting than posting the same links again and again that nobody will read?
Thanks for educating me Andrew, this is all quite fascinating. What are the chances that they will expel Paul from the Party for this?