+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Hawaii universal basic income (/showthread.php?tid=18496)
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - Eric1600 - 06-20-2017
I haven't looked at Hawaii's UBI program, but it sounds like they are just going to pay for another study to look at the idea.
Hawaii may be the first U.S. state to pass any sort of UBI-positive legislation, but several countries around the globe are already testing the system. Finland began its two-year UBI pilot in 2016, and Germany has one as well. Canada plans to start trials in Prince Edward Island (PEI) and Ontario, while India is currently debating the merits of UBI. Several private UBI endeavors are also in the works, including one that uses blockchain and cryptocurrency.
It seems this is just a step beyond raising minimum wages. Raising the minium wage has proven to be very successful both in raising worker productivity and boosting the economy. It's worked in every region that has tried it as well as for every company whom has implimented the increased minimum policy, including McDonalds.
http://fortune.com/2016/03/09/mcdonalds-wages/
It has done what we expected it to—90 day turnover rates are down, our survey scores are up—we have more staff in restaurants," McDonald's U.S. president Mike Andres told analysts at a UBS conference on Wednesday. "So far we're pleased with it—it was a significant investment obviously but it's working well."
However they have also pushed for automation and robotic workers.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - leilanidude - 06-20-2017
More pickpocketing (often from foreigners),.....
---------
PaulW - You meant to say...immigrants?
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - PaulW - 06-20-2017
No, I meant to say foreigners. Those not of that country. Not always, of course, but over-represented.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - MarkD - 06-20-2017
To the UBI proponents:
All this sounds pretty indepth. Perhaps the plans might work.
But it seems there has been a steady erosion of the work ethic in America, particularly with respect to physical work that is taxing or dirty. Part of this is a growing dislike of rigorous physical activity in general and also a lack of interest in being outside.
These perspectives are rather common among our nature-deficient young people, I think. Heaven forbid that they will ever have to work out in the bush for half a day in a place lacking wifi connection. (The Pixar movie WALL-E does an excellent job of portraying how this all might work out. Worth seeing.)
I know several people who get some $2200 a month, including Section 8 rent vouchers, for their disabilities. They can holo all around the island, swim in the ocean every day (a short ocean swim is considered an acceptable interaction with nature). But they are incapable of doing any work, mentally or physically (supposedly).
I imagine the UBI scheme will continue to have a lot of folks like this. This will not go unnoticed by the people doing the worst jobs. IMO we will face a growing problem of getting these tasks done.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - leilanidude - 06-20-2017
quote:So they are either immigrants (legal or illegal) or are they tourists from a foreign country who arrive just to be pickpockets while on their vacation?
Originally posted by PaulW
No, I meant to say foreigners. Those not of that country. Not always, of course, but over-represented.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - Peter Easterling - 06-20-2017
COMMUNISM!! SOCIALISM!!! LAZY IMMIGRANTS!!! Got that out of my system. Only Donald Trump apparently believes high-paying blue collar jobs are coming back. Obviously they are not. In 1980 I began working in Honolulu for a major insurance company. 140 employees in the office. Primarily because of automation the staff steadily shrank (while the business itself grew). Driverless vehicles are coming. Soon, I hope with the daily sight of lolos misbehaving on Big Island roads. Robotics and other technologies are changing our society. We must redistribute the wealth and stop demonizing the poor. Most folks want to contribute to their family and community. I am 100% for serious consideration of a guaranteed minimum wage. Or maybe we can call them names and wonder why they don't work 2 shifts at umm, uh, someplace.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - leilanidude - 06-20-2017
PeterE..If you want to redistribute the wealth, why not make yourself an example and give all your hard-earned money away, first?
(Although I do believe that Hawaii's legislators are trying to accomplish that through the continued increases in taxes and fees)
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - Radiopeg - 06-20-2017
Ever see a government welfare program get canceled?
I think about California's AFDC (welfare) in the early 70's. If you went to work on welfare you got to keep the first $30 and one third of the rest, before they started to reduce your grant. That made working a puny job more appealing. You kept your medical and some food stamps. It is no longer that way. Maybe UBI should be a combo of work and volunteering for those that are able. For people with dependent relatives they are caring for in their homes. For the semi-retired who have used up their health on some physical job.
The future of employment is bleak. There will never be enough decently paying jobs.
P.S. Do you anti UBI think that the Earned income Credit is anything more than a socialistic hand out? Or a needed program. Don't be so harsh.
Peace and long life
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 06-20-2017
So they are either immigrants
If Hawaii had the kind of strict immigration policy advocated by some on this thread, even the rich white landholders (Baldwin, Shipman, Alexander, etc) would never have moved here in the 1800's, because they wouldn't have had an unrestricted Asian labor force necessary to grow their sugarcane and pineapples.
Then, there would be no annexation of Hawaii by the US, Hawaii might never have become a state, and those who now sit comfortably in their Hawaiian homes grumbling about immigrants wouldn't have so easily been able to move here, without visa applications, passports, and foreign ownership restrictions on the houses they live in.
The only reason they can complain about immigrants from a home and a life in Hawaii, is thanks to immigrants.
And... for all those Tea Party sympathizers wish a return to the golden age of the Founding Fathers, look at the immigration policies the signers of Declaration of Independence and writers of the Constitution put into place. Virtually nothing. If you read the 2nd Amendment and believe it provides for unlimited and unrestricted gun ownership, then, read the original text of the Constitution and you'll see it provides for even fewer restrictions on immigration.
RE: Hawaii universal basic income - PaulW - 06-20-2017
The pickpockets aren't tourists either, they've come to work!