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+--- Thread: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process (/showthread.php?tid=19014)
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - Kapoho Joe - 12-10-2017
quote:
Originally posted by glinda
And, oh yeah, the NRA should be disbanded. The Second amendment repealed.
You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-10-2017
The Second amendment repealed.
No need to repeal it. Just enforce it as written; "well regulated."
You buy a gun in Hilo, register it with your place of residence and as part of your ownership you are automatically enrolled in the Puna Well Regulated Militia. You are taught basic firearm safety, target practice, and gun use in a group setting as a member of the local militia unit.
Then instead of other states attempting to inflict on and require that Hawaii follow their unregulated and grossly inadequate training requirements (which is the opposite of what's stipulated in the 2nd Amendment), Hawaii can set an example and show the rest of the nation a working, functioning militia as the Founding Fathers intended. Well regulated.
It shouldn't take more than 1000 county workers to manage and operate the system.
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - terracore - 12-10-2017
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Well regulated" doesn't mean subject to regulations. In 1791 "well regulated" meant "disciplined" or "trained". The second amendment says two things 1) A trained, disciplined militia is necessary to the security of a free state and 2) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The people who wrote these words had just shed a government they believed to by tyrannical by using force. When they are talking about a free state, they aren't talking about duck hunting, home or personal protection, they are talking about protection against tyranny. Doctor Hupp sums it up at about the 4:40 mark- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - PaulW - 12-10-2017
While having loaded guns lying around your house may make you feel safer (It actually makes you less safe, in many ways) what about the other people in your community who will now, with very good reason, feel and be a lot less safe? Do they count?
I hope the Senate shows some common sense. We don’t need this lunacy in Hawaii, we have one of the lowest murder rates in the country.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - terracore - 12-10-2017
Google: mass shootings pharmaceuticals
Hawaii has a low murder rate because we have one of the lowest rates of depression in the USA.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - leilanidude - 12-10-2017
BTW, interesting murder on Oahu the other day - with a baseball bat.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-10-2017
From my copy of The Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology, which follows the development of word definitions:
'Well' was first identified in Old English about 725 in Beowulf, it meant in a satisfactory manner, or satisfactory.
'Regulated' first appeared sometime before 1425, from Late Latin, first defined as control by rule, then after 1672 it's meaning expanded to include an act of rule or law
Even if expanded to include disciplined or trained, that is far from what many states have on their books right now. Hawaii might come closest with their classroom requirement.
"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - SoCal_to_Hawaii - 12-10-2017
“America is gun happy, and those that want guns never say anything about why it is that by world standards they are so over the top possessed by guns. This should be on the table, talked about, and legislation to correct it passed. AND, if that doesn't work we should have all guns confiscated.”
Wow. I am a gun owner and in no way am I over the top possessed by guns. It is a Constitutional right that I choose to exercise. And for those that may be ‘over the top’ you cannot legislate how people think or feel. Maybe you can explain why you are so rabidly anti-gun? AND, gun confiscation really is not a solution. By definition criminals ignore laws. Do you really think they will turn in their guns because the government asks them nicely?
The UK is asking nicely, again, for folks to turn in their guns:
https://news.sky.com/story/firearms-amnesty-as-uk-gun-crime-rises-27-this-year-11124745
“national figures revealed the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased by 27% to 6,696 in the year ending June 2017.”
Gun confiscation by force by the government thereby trampling on a Constitutional right (trampling on the 2nd Amendment and violating the 4th Amendment) is the very reason the founders felt it important the populace be armed. As terracore pointed out, it is protection against tyranny. Madison covered it in Federalist 46 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._46) and Jefferson said, "“When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
With that said, the right to bear arms is not exactly the same as CCW. I do not have an issue with CCW in general – I think Hawaii is too restrictive, but I don’t think they should be passed out like candy either. The States do have reciprocity for Driver Licenses and drivers kill more folks every year than lawful gun owners do. However, I can see an argument that this is a State's rights issue.
On a lighter note I came across a picture of someone holding a sign that said, “My guns won’t be illegal. They’ll be undocumented.”
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - Rob Tucker - 12-10-2017
Keep it Hawaii folks or lose it.....
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - leilanidude - 12-10-2017
The UK is asking nicely, again, for folks to turn in their guns:
https://news.sky.com/story/firearms-amnesty-as-uk-gun-crime-rises-27-this-year-11124745
“national figures revealed the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased by 27% to 6,696 in the year ending June 2017.”
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As restrictive as Hawaii's laws are regarding gun ownership, Hawaii essentially already does this. Almost all of Hawaii's gun crimes are committed using illegal guns, possessed by people that cannot legally own them to begin with. I suspect that is the case in the UK too.