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+--- Thread: Fence, and leash? (/showthread.php?tid=9766)
RE: Fence, and leash? - Bullwinkle - 01-21-2012
"The dogs on this island all need a lot of exercise because they have been tied up"
Not all of them - some of us do quite well letting them share our lives off leash 24-7 ironically (non abusive,reward based) training the key to the dogs freedom. (Ever notice how many trainers have dominance issues?)
That is not to say I'd let them roam over to the neighbors or wonder into danger. The dog cant reason things out, thats my job in the partnership - keeping them safe, happy and socialized.
One needs to remember that we live on an island where dogs traditionally were considered a food source - another good reason to keep an eye on them and maybe the underlying reason there is so much animal abuse present imho.
RE: Fence, and leash? - Kapohocat - 01-21-2012
Since I started this thread back 4 pages -
the overwhelming idea is responsible pet ownership (but we all know cats are different - we are just their minions...[
][] ). Pets can be regulated to no end as we all know with everything else in our life, but it is personal responsibility that will win out, and make eveyone's life pleasant.And yes to whomever said dogs are like children, there needs to be supervision of some sort.
The other overwhelming thought I see is that like people's children, every one thinks their's is the most well behaved dog ever, and other peoples dogs are the problem.
RE: Fence, and leash? - MarkP - 01-21-2012
Let us assume for the moment that afwjam is correct in his or her assessment of themselves as a responsible citizen and a successful trainer of civilized dogs. If everyone were like that then afwjam is correct. Let'em off leash. The dogs and everyone would be the better for it. Unfortunately, afwjam, you sell yourself short. Many, many of the dog owners in Hawaii do not live up to your standards and consider a dog to be more of a weapon than a pet.
RE: Fence, and leash? - dmbwest - 01-21-2012
Yep on that Mark... +++ ( props to Kapohocat ) all the kids who's parents do not stop them from tearing around @ a resturant or store thinking its o.k. to do so. Imagine if they own dogs ? : 0
Gotta factor in peoples / cultures accepted 'standards' yeah ?
RE: Fence, and leash? - Guest - 01-23-2012
So if we just tie up all the children and dogs everything will be fine, just make a leash law for all children and dogs. Got it. Make sure you get the argument correct, mans best friend and mans children annoy you, so you want them all restrained and tied up. You guys are desperately trying to control symptoms of the problem, rather then working on the problem.
One of the problems I see is that people don't realize that they live on a rural and wild island with wild bore(leash them up), mans best friend(Tie up the last of em...), roosters(who are already tied up) and sharks!(better shoot them all)
Worse yet! Coconuts fall from trees! We better clean all the coconut trees! Even though more people end up dead from climbing them, then they do from coconuts falling(in fact the only place there has been an actual deaths from a falling coco was in the Philippines. that I can find... ) Don't forget all pit bulls are killers, its a genetic thing, has nothing to do with their training, which usually consists of being tied up.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Fence, and leash? - dmbwest - 01-23-2012
Sigh .... Silly afwjam ... Where to start ?
Agree with you on one thing ... Its the OWNERS and PARENTS. And thats been my stance the whole time.
ruf ruf
pog
RE: Fence, and leash? - Orchidlandguy - 01-27-2012
quote:
Originally posted by Carey
I live in an older part of Keaau, & most of my neighbors have worked, at least some part of their life, for Shipman LTD or one of their leasee's...
From what I gather from my neighbors, it has NEVER been OK to use the Shipman property without permission (lashings have been mentioned by some, by both the foremen & their (the neighbors as kids) folks of ol' yore -ETA these are folks that are now waaaayyy older than I am-)... I do know that permission is granted & I have done field work on their property through UH-H, and I gather, even from that, that it is not OK to go on their property without permission....
Think about it.... they have the liability of their employees, & the people who have requested permission to use their land, & the ranch animals, & their leasees rights, and their own ag interests....why on earth would they want the liability of anyone else on their property???
Esp. when you look at how some people have dumped garbage, cars. whiteware, etc. all about their property, and leave messes without cleaning up.... I think that they have made statements in the past & even have given visual clues (like the big boulders) that they do not want any & everyone traipsing about their property...
If you do use their property without their permission, then do not say it is OK to others, and try to leave it better, or at least the same, as when you entered.... that is the same you would expect of others to treat your property...
You need to check out what you are saying.
the paths from the HPP end streets at the Kaloli Point area into Shipman are open for the public to walk on. You do not need permission to walk along the paths on the cliff area of Shipman property. I have spoken to the GM many times about this. They do not want you hunting there nor on other areas of the property. They do not want you driving there. I have permission to drive in once a week to do a rubbish haul out only. They do not want you camping there. But it is OK for the public to walk along the shoreline paths in the Shipman property.
I think that if a dog is on private property (mine or others, no distinction made) they do not legally need to be leashed. That was what I was trying to say when I made the previous statement you had an issue with. I don't know for sure, and I don't personally let my do go without leash, BUT I think since it is private property just like my own property, the dog doesn't have to be on a leash on Shipman property. Legally speaking private property is private property.
RE: Fence, and leash? - Carey - 01-27-2012
You do have permission (quote from your post "I have permission to drive in once a week to do a rubbish haul out only"), but for all of the Shipman Ltd. property??? & to invite everyone on this forum, to have anyone /everyone walking their dogs off leash anywhere on the Shipman Property??? REALLY???
Remember the quote you wrote was not that it was a legal question of walking the dog unleashed on private property, but you stated that it was "OK to walk your dog unleashed on Shipman property" (I would hope that you can see that to put that on a public forum is opening up a can of worms....)
Besides. that is not the impression I have from the dealing I have had with neighbors & in the research I have done on their property...but if you say that it is OK for anyone/everyone to walk their dogs unleashed on your property & all of the Shipman property... I guess it is OK, but with my sweet but deaf dog, I would not want other dogs walking on my property without a leash!
RE: Fence, and leash? - missydog1 - 01-27-2012
If it's private property, then the owner makes the rules, not the County or State. So whether dogs are allowed to be off leash should be a Shipman policy. Even if there is an easement for the public, the property owner should have a say about animals.
An access easement gives the right to access, but it doesn't confer property rights to the easement users, in this case the public.
RE: Fence, and leash? - Kelena - 01-27-2012
Now we are in the land of the absurd. Because a given property is private, that doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't own that piece of property has a right to it. It is private TO THE OWNER, except for easements, which are usually limited by their terms, express or implied. The roads in HPP are private, strictly speaking, but that does not mean they belong to every "private" individual. In fact, they don't even belong to the individual members of the HPP Owner's Association. They belong to the association. That's why you can't just plant a coconut tree in the middle of the street. You don't own it. You have permission to travel on it to reach your house. You have permission to go through Shipman property to reach Hilo, or to traipse along the shoreline. One can argue the scope of permissions there based on history, but what you cannot do is exceed the scope of the owner's grant of permission to use the land.