Fence, and leash?

[Kapohocat]

To move the issue of control over your pet away from the condolences for the pet owner, I hope the discussion about what constitutes being a responsible pet owner moves here. ETA to change title from or to and.
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Last weekend, one of the neighborhood dogs almost got hit by a visitor's car at the tide pools. Scared the crap out of my husband. Car was moving at less than 5 mph and couldn't see dog. it was debatable whether dog was on his side of the line or in the right of way. It is a really tight squeeze in that area.

My husband took the opportunity to tell the dog owner in quite coloroful language what he thought about not keeping dog out of harm's way. dog is going to live across the street about 20 ft from the parking soon so this is not going to be a one time problem.

I asked my hubby why he was so ... ummmmm... colorful? He said "I was really scared for [dog], and I reacted". Right or wrong, fear makes us react, not think sometimes.

Obie has a point about control over our pets, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Should dogs be allowed to roam free and scare walkers and bicyclists? Dogs have run at Obie on a bike. What if he fell and was injured? We have one dog in our neighborhood that has injured his owner while on walks because of his strength. What if that dog was loose?

So leash? Fence? or pets roam free? or does it always depend on the dog -

Here's a legal interpretation problem for you: If the law requires a dog to be on a leash, does the owner have to be holding on to the other end?

"Jean Bessette of Van Nuys, California, was ticketed for walking his Labrador retriever, Rex, without a leash. Bessette protested that the dog was on a leash. The problem was that Bessette wasn't holding the other end of the leash - Rex was, in his mouth.

Bessette and Rex went to court, where Rex balanced dog biscuits on his nose to show how well trained he was. The pair got off with a warning."


Lots of room here for polite discussion.

[Rumi in Hawaii]

It is, indeed, a difficult issue. So many folks in Hawaii own aggressive dogs (and yes, they do protect your property...most of the time)...certain breeds that are large and unpredictable (OK, I know there are exceptions, and some pitbulls and some rotweilers are calm and submissive, but let's be honest - how many Shih-zus have attacked kids, or people on bikes???) are downright scary if I'm walking down the road, or riding my bike. Even when folks have these kinds of dogs behind fences, when the dogs are going rabid attacking the fence, I wonder if the fence will hold up long enough for me to walk or bike on by. That's one side of the issue. Another, obviously, is dogs running free and getting hit by cars. I don't know how anyone can legislate dog owner-responsibility any more than you can legislate intelligence or good child-rearing, and how do you determine if one dog is OK, but another isn't..... All I know is that "man's best friend" is not only being injured (think: dog fights, puppy mills, getting run over) but also being used as a weapon when a weapon is overkill (like when kids are walking down the road and dogs go ballistic). I also hate seeing dogs chained up....both for the dog's sake, and for my sake because I don't know if the chain will hold the dog back as I walk by. Fencing would be better, but it's very expensive. What's the answer???? It's a complex problem.... I realize people want their families to feel protected, they want their stuff to be protected. I have to say I found posting a "Beware of Dog" sign on my gate was a great deterrent.... no one had to know it was only a Shih-tzu!! And by the way, walking my little dog on a leash along a road with either dogs running loose, or dogs about to break their chains or fencing, is an intrusion on my freedom, too.

[Kapohocat]

RIH, we have a "beware of attack cat" on our gate. LOL

[missydog1]

There is no question in my mind that a person has the higher right to be in a public area, or his/her private property, without being put in fear by someone's loose dog -- or ferocious cat, or rabid kangaroo, whatever.

The law is fairly clear on that right, but the attitude hasn't caught up with the law, and enforcement can be problematic.

Two examples:
I have neighbors who think it is OK to let their dogs run around on my property as part of their daily romp. I don't have money to fence the dogs out. I have cats that are terrified of dogs, and I'm not fond of encountering loose dogs that I don't know.

In a former house, the neighbor kept an unleashed Doberman right next to my parking area. When I came to walk around my own land, the dog's protective instincts would kick in and it would bark, growl, slaver, and chase me back into my car. I tried to talk to the owners, but they said they considered the dog not to be a biter. It was just nervous because it was a mother with pups. Oh great, no reason to be anxious if a Doberman with pups feels threatened.

The dog had no concept of the property line. I definitely thought the owners should restrain the dog in some fashion. Oh, and they also ducked responsibility because they were only minding the dog for a family member while it had its pups.

lol, I am so glad not to be dealing with that any more.

[Carey]

Hawaii County Code does have laws on animal control, for the protection of the domestic animal, people AND our native animals, many of whom are very susepible to the damage a domestic animal can do. It is the responsibility of the animal owner, and those that interact with any animal to abide to by the Code. Link:
http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/Weblink8/...Page1.aspx

The Code does have a leash law, and animals are not to stray from their property.

It also does have a law code 4-16 about a drivers duty after striking a dog or cat (or any animal) that states that the driver must stop, move the animal off of the road, if possible & render aid, where necessary, immediately

We have a deaf, high energy dog... and we are fairly responsible owners. Since she is deaf, for her safety & others, we know she should ALWAYS be in a confined area. I know that...and she is almost always in total control/confinement.... I say almost always, as she is a dog with a high sense of adventure....

She has figured out single fence gate latches & gotten out....luckily she was only trying to get to another neighbor dog that was being walked right at our fence & was immediately returned...now all gates here have at least 2 latches....

She has chewed chain link fence....once was caught in the middle of pulling out one "zipper" links of the chain link, twice caught 1/2 way out after pulling out the bottom wire holds on the gates....they are all completely lashed....and we are having new welded gates built that may be harder to escape....

She has pushed out & cut out screens in the house (the fence is always closed because of this)

She has a runner chain that we use when the gate must be open, she chewed open the simple spring latch & so it now has a double latch.

She did get loose once as I was changing from the walking leash to the runner leash...just that split second...and a truck went by & off she went... luckily a neighbor caught her as she was running along the truck with the walk leash trailing.... HOWEVER, the truck driver had twice turned into the dog and did not stop at the stop sign in front of our house. This was with me running after the dog & the neighbor watching, so I can image what might have happen if we were not there...and trying to be responsible!

[james weatherford]

About holding the other end of the leash:
Which "law" prevails when the driver of the car, going 45mph in a 25mph zone, hits an animal off the leash (especially when it seems the dog was on private property, just.)?

There does not appear to be anything in the Hawaii County Code that requires a dog to be on a leash when it is on private property, unless that animal has been identified as a "dangerous dog".

Furthermore, from the Hawaii County Code:
"Section 4-16. Duty upon striking animals, including dogs and cats.
The driver of any vehicle which collides with or is involved in an accident with any animal, including
dogs and cats, shall:
(a) Stop, move the animal off the road, if possible, and render aid where necessary, and immediately
(b) Have the animal’s owner located, or
© Notify the police department or humane society.
There shall be a penalty of not more than $50 for each violation of subsection (b) or © of this section."

[Carey]

James, Not sure if this answers your questions about which law
1. the driver has the obligation to obey all laws in regards to the road...ie speed limit
2. the driver has the obligation to stop if they hit any animal & try to render aid & notify owner

3. animal owners have the obligation to make sure their animal ETA: Code 4-30 "not allowed to stray upon public lands or the private lands of another" the wording of this is more than not really clear, and is only clear if a female dog is in season (4-23)more clear, they are not to be allowed to run at large or be off the premise of the owner & are to be within their property or on a leash, where it is legal to have them leashed (there are areas in the county where it is not legal to have a domestic animal or pet, even if they are on leash)
4. the owner of an animal, if the animal has been/could be dangerous, must have the animal under control at all time. County Code 4-31 does cover many of the fears that some have expressed, and if it was ENFORCED, would probably alleviate much.... but that probably will not be a priority here for a looong time...


ETA: when reading anew...it seems that the notion of leashing a dog is only for certain public areas, female dogs in season & dangerous dogs.... and that county code does give an animal owner 24 hours after notification to remove an animal that has strayed...

So in this county, an animal that strays, as long as it is not a dog in season, or dangerous, is not too much of a worry to the writers of the County Code...which is the basis of the county laws.

[Kapohocat]

And here's where our neighborhood is having issues. Check what is in bold. Our COH leash law doesnt actually cover a whole lot.


Section 4- 29. Leash required for public places. [<<< This is a title not the rule.]

No person shall bring or permit any dog in any County park, public school ground, or airport unless it is held under control by a suitable leash, not more than six feet long; provided, however, that dogs even under control by a suitable leash shall not be allowed in any County beach park. These restrictions shall not apply to
dogs utilized by police for patrol or other police purposes.
1980, Ord. No. 510, sec. 2; Am. 1986, Ord. No. 86- 34, sec. 5.)

[otter]

leave the dobermans out of this. You didn't get bit. If you were a doberman on the big island you would be on the job 24/7 protecting your family and things. yes sh!t suz And the like bite far more people than "protection dogs" they just don't get reported.

[mailesomaha]

There's no real perfect solution, but I can add a complication.

I always knew that one day my best friend Maile, the sweet and gullible type of rottweiller, would one day leave this wonderful and wicked world. She did pass of natural causes.

As I wondered what kinds of dangers my daughters might be in based on whatever activity they'd decided to taken on, I also wondered about Maile. I worried, because she was so sweet, that she might run after neighbor Tom's truck because she recognized his voice and be hit by his car. I worried she might hear the "colorful" neighbors fighting and speeding and bolt and be hit by their car.

She's passed on; I miss her everyday! She used to lay at the end of the drive. I never, in my wildest dreams, would have imagined that she was in any danger at all on our property.

To think someone might hit her with their car and suffer a $50 fine if they didn't render aid is pretty laughable.

The roads in Eden Roc are "private property". Everyone who owns land here can "legally" have their dogs in the road and that's not breaking the law. Ask me how I know. There's 1,800 properties here. Alot of dogs in the street.