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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - geochem - 11-28-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Eric1600
The problem is for the Big Island, astronomy, a green industry, contributes about $91 million a year to the economy. Chasing it out for unrelated emotional reasons is very short sighted. Can the industry be improved, sure. Can the protestors find better economic substitutions, no. Will they compromise, no. Will we all lose in the long run, yes.
You should understand, though, that that is their intended objective - that all who might benefit from the construction and operation of the telescopes be denied that opportunity. I'm sure that it's been cited here before, but it's the a'ama crab syndrome (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHJ6In_iTvY) that exists within the local culture. If any group or business is particularly successful, that individual or group needs to be taken down. Astronomy jobs are well paid, gratifying jobs - most of the protestors have no likelihood of acquiring such jobs in Hawaii and so they feel entitled to undermine anyone who has aspirations to those jobs.
That attitude permeates Hawaii - we try to attract new businesses to Hawaii but, as soon as they try to develop here, there are obstructionists lined up to try to take them down.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-29-2016
For Pisciotta it was the removal of her family stone and ashes
The metamorphosis between ancient Hawaiian culture and modern Hawaiian culture is one aspect of the TMT argument that I don't understand. Admittedly, I'm not an expert in Hawaiian history, but one would surmise before highways and pickup trucks, very few common folk on Hawaii Island ever made their way to the summit of Mauna Kea. At one period in history, only the ali'i were allowed, or workers in the service of the ali'i.
I've heard and read from various sources that Mauna Kea is a "sacred burial ground." When did this begin? One would think that before Saddle Road and the internal combustion engine, it would have been extremely difficult to carry the remains of a loved one up the 13,000 mountainside for internment. Some quarry workers may have died as they performed their duties below the summit, or trespassers who were caught by representatives of the ali'i, but otherwise, how many people were buried near the top of Mauna Kea?
If this is then a recent development by Pisciotta and a few other ahu builders, couldn't their incursion of the peak be considered just as much a desecration on the slopes of Mauna Kea as the observatories? Or is one too large and the other just the right size, one too metallic and white while the other is constructed of native materials?
Is there a basis to their claim that Mauna Kea should be a resting place for the bones of native Hawaiian people anywhere in historical documents or ancient cultural practices? Or is it considered simply a natural evolution of the old ways, updated when modern conveniences now make such a memorial possible? And if that is the case, aren't the new practitioners drawing a fine line, their own personal, subjective distinction between what should and should not be allowed near the peak of the mountain?
“Rational people know what to expect. Irrational people know what to demand.” Last Aphorisms
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - knieft - 11-29-2016
Sheesh, telescopes are somehow bad...now composting?
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/communities-fight-planned-compost-operation-hilo-landfill
"Native Hawaiian communities in Keaukaha and Panaewa are gearing up to fight a planned composting facility adjacent to the Hilo landfill, a move that could jeopardize a key component of the county’s plan to close the landfill and recycle more of its waste.
Residents, including Hilo Councilwoman-elect Sue Lee Loy, are asking for a more in-depth study than the environmental assessment currently underway."
I was gonna say what's next for "Hawaiians" to oppose but I couldn't come up with anything greener than telescopes and composting off the top of my head...
Interesting that the print edition headline is "Willing to fight" with "2 Native Hawaiian communities oppose planned composting facility at Hilo landfill" as opposed to the linked headline.
Hopefully this doesn't end up in a contested hearing...
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 11-29-2016
To be clear: these "Hawaiians" aren't complaining about the composting, only that the facility would be near their house.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - knieft - 11-29-2016
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
To be clear: these "Hawaiians" aren't complaining about the composting, only that the facility would be near their house.
"Adjacent to the landfill" is near Keaukaha and Panaewa? Must be something I don't understand--often the case.
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 11-29-2016
"Adjacent to the landfill" is near Keaukaha and Panaewa?
From the article:
Lee Loy, whose own Panaewa farm lot is just six houses away from the current landfill
Landfill is TMK 210131670000. All the adjacent lots are owned by State and zoned Industrial. Many people lease Ag land on the next block; click out six houses in any direction, and none of them are Lee Loy -- it's almost as if someone was using hyperbole to make their point.
Again, none of this would be a problem if we had land-use regulations that worked "for the people", including niceties like buffer zones...
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 11-29-2016
The many Standing Rock water protectors will have another Protector from the state of Hawaii joining them over the weekend.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33807740/gabbard-planning-to-join-veterans-in-protest-of-dakota-access-pipeline
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 11-29-2016
"The many Standing Rock water protectors will have another Protector from the state of Hawaii joining them over the weekend.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33807740/gabbard-planning-to-join-veterans-in-protest-of-dakota-access-pipeline"
And how is this related to the TMT?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - punaticbychoice - 11-30-2016
TomK:
Gypsy is trying to establish a false equivalency between a set of serious issues and real Protectors at Standing Rock-
and manufactured farce of an issue- TMT- on the part of the "Protectors".
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - leilanidude - 11-30-2016
a set of serious issues and real Protectors at Standing Rock
----
I am tending to believe that protest is made-up too.
Ever look at a map of pipelines that already exist in North Dakota?
I have to wonder, why are all the 200+ others OK, that cross rivers?