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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 12-12-2016
There does not exist, and cannot even be imagined, a more harmless and benign engine of economic development than a telescope on a mountain.
You are talking about $1.4 Billion in passive high-technology with a footprint confined to a site of barely 1.5 acres. Emissions are zero and the energy consumption will be that required to light and heat a few offices in the building, and some computers.
Hysterical hyperbole of the 'protectors' aside, the physical footprint of TMT on Maunakea is the equivalent of placing a nickle on a basketball court.
Environmental arguments against TMT are hysterical drivel.
The argument of the 'protectors' is that Hawaii does not need an economy. That they can even put forth such an argument instantly disqualifies them from rational discourse.
This entire debate is about the right of a few narcissistic individuals with a political ax to grind to use the courts to drive a state into ruin and future generations to the Mainland.
---------------------------
You can't fix Samsara.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - PaulW - 12-12-2016
They are joined by those against anything with even a hint of science, against anything that doesn't benefit them personally and against anything that will pay salaries that they are jealous of.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-12-2016
future generations to the Mainland.
Future generations of Hawaiians.
In American Samoa the tuna factories are allowed to pay less than U.S. law requires, so positions are filled by Tongan workers, because Tonga is desperately poor. The American Samoans who won't work there, fly to Hawaii for greater opportunity, with better pay. Hawaiian kids, the ones who graduate from college, often move to the mainland to find work in their field. That's how it is now.
Turning away high tech, scientific jobs in Hawaii, like positions in the field of astronomy is... short sighted... at best.
"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - PaulW - 12-12-2016
Now that your objections have been debunked for the umpteenth time, are you ready to step into the light and embrace rationality and progress?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 12-12-2016
Turning away high tech, scientific jobs in Hawaii
Especially when most of those jobs already don't come here because it's too expensive.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 12-13-2016
Well, what do you know? Oil pipelines are actually an environmental hazard!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/13/pipeline-150-miles-from-dakota-access-protests-leaks-176000-gallons-of-oil/
Question for the "protectors": leaking 176K gallons of oil = how many TMTs?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-13-2016
Question for the "protectors": leaking 176K gallons of oil = how many TMTs?
Another question for the protectors: 176K gallons of oil = how many protectors pickup trucks driving up Mauna Kea?
"One may pretend knowledge of philosophy more successfully than that of arithmetic." -Last Aphorisms (or how about, one may pretend knowledge with an opinion more successfully than with facts)
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - MarkP - 12-13-2016
Generally speaking I am pro-TMT and find the "protectors" actions to be generally harmful, including driving gas-guzzling pick-ups loaded with ant-laden fronds and who-know what else up the mountain and pooping who-knows where while they are up there, but to keep things honest if each vehicle leaked 1 gallon of oil per trip that would be 176,000 vehicle-trips. That's a huge number so it doesn't seem like a fair comparison. OTOH Maunakea is a fairly pristine environment and only a tiny number of ants or weed seeds is all it would take to contaminate it. Also even in the case of motor oil the "protectors" would decry the spillage of even small amounts. They just either choose to ignore or are not capable of processing the concept that they themselves are the problem.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Guest - 12-13-2016
Good morning Kalakoa and HOTPE.
The great numbers of protectors driving their vehicles to the summit these days would not be happening if their rights were not ignored or voices heard. The protectors and others can only drive to the summit these days because substantial damage has already been caused by the current working telescopes. For example, they built and maintain the road. The TMT "if" built may be inviting millions of tourists to also drive or be driven up the road which in turn can cause more substantial damage. If the TMT is built on Mauna Kea they may want to widen the existing road in some sections for things like electricity purposes or use some kind of dust retardants that may cause even more substantial damage to the summit environment and ecosystem. Next comes a few heart attacks or other tourism related health concerns and they will have their reasons to build high altitude helicopter landing pads. Jmo
How does any of this type of continued development encourage or protect Hawaiian Cultural Practices and Traditions?
http://www.protectmaunakea.org/single-post/2015/04/27/Does-the-Thirty-Meter-Telescope-Pose-Environmental-Risks
Why would Stephanie Nagata from the Office of Mauna Kea management currently be trying to extend the land lease past the 2033 date when the current telescopes are to be decommissioned? Would she be doing this now if the TMT was not planned for the summit of Mauna Kea?
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - PaulW - 12-13-2016
"Millions of tourists"
Where do you get these fantastic numbers? Do you have any idea how many tourists go there now? Your objections are based on delusions.