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+--- Thread: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process (/showthread.php?tid=19014)
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - terracore - 12-12-2017
"I'm thinking slingshot, baseball bat, 2 by 4, coyote pee... etc.."
(b) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person’s self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person. Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.
a) Whoever knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses, or transports in the State any switchblade knife, being any knife having a blade which opens automatically
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
H.R.S. § 134-52
(a) Whoever knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses, or transports in the State any butterfly knife having a blade encased in a split handle that manually unfolds with hand or wrist action with the assistance of inertia, gravity or both, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
H.R.S. § 134-53
eta: "dangerous weapon" is open to interpretation, for example a stick with a nail in it is a "dangerous weapon". I mow the easements for 18 properties in our neighborhood and one of our neighbors has a pitbull that has attacked seven people. I have no choice but to potentially violate the law in order to provide myself with protection against the animal. Also ETA later for formatting.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-12-2017
armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol... switchblade...
Has anyone on Punaweb found it an inconvenience, recently, that they were not legally able to slip on a pair of metal knuckles? Or might it just be the principle that we can't participate in a complete free-for-all on the streets and roads of the Big Island? I don't know about you, but I've been doing fine without a blackjack, and never once thought about one until I saw it notated in the list 10 minutes ago.
Instead of an illegal dirk to protect ourselves, we could go to the junkyard and find the biggest tire iron available. Police can't deny us the ability to change a flat. No interpretation there. It is what it is. Remember, we have options. Many options. The unavailability of the items listed above isn't a hardship we can't endure.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - terracore - 12-12-2017
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol... switchblade...
...
Instead of an illegal dirk to protect ourselves, we could go to the junkyard and find the biggest tire iron available. Police can't deny us the ability to change a flat. No interpretation there. It is what it is. Remember, we have options. Many options. The unavailability of the items listed above isn't a hardship we can't endure.
So instead of wanting common sense laws, I should be looking for ways to circumvent the existing laws to protect myself from this four legged predator?
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 12-12-2017
protect myself from this four legged predator?
If you are performing yard services near this vicious dog, you're presumably using a lawn mower or weed wacker with a loud engine. That means the neighbor, with dog, knows when you're there. He hears a BANG from a gun allowed by "common sense laws." He comes out to see his dog, dead.
Now where does the situation go from there? Does he just accept that you were protecting yourself? Will it be safe to ever return and work near that property again, or will you have to give up the job?
Assuming you'd like to keep the account, and avoid being stalked by an angry, crazy former dog owner, who now also owns a gun due to "common sense laws" you could instead drive down to the gun shop on Kalaikoa Street just down from the tennis stadium, and buy a currently legal canister of pepper spray with a long distance stream, rather than the spray.
If nothing else it will protect you while you wait for the gun laws to change.
I hope you stay safe terracore.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - PaulW - 12-12-2017
Thanks to Alabama, this has become even more unlikely. Hooray!
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - terracore - 12-12-2017
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
protect myself from this four legged predator?
If you are performing yard services near this vicious dog, you're presumably using a lawn mower or weed wacker with a loud engine. That means the neighbor, with dog, knows when you're there. He hears a BANG from a gun allowed by "common sense laws." He comes out to see his dog, dead.
Now where does the situation go from there? Does he just accept that you were protecting yourself? Will it be safe to ever return and work near that property again, or will you have to give up the job?
Assuming you'd like to keep the account, and avoid being stalked by an angry, crazy former dog owner, who now also owns a gun due to "common sense laws" you could instead drive down to the gun shop on Kalaikoa Street just down from the tennis stadium, and buy a currently legal canister of pepper spray with a long distance stream, rather than the spray.
If nothing else it will protect you while you wait for the gun laws to change.
I hope you stay safe terracore.
Just to clarify: I don't carry a gun outside the home, and my mowing services are voluntary (just trying to improve the road) Coming from Alaska, I'm familiar with OC sprays. They aren't very useful when you are surprised, (imagine unholstering the spray, staring at it while trying to figure out how to turn the gizmo that prevents accidental discharge, gauging the wind so you don't blind yourself, and aiming the spray... all while a dog has been already attacking you the entire time. I'm guessing it's impossible). But effective dog-stopping bludgeoning weapons (unholster and hit) are not legal under HI law, according to what a cop told me.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - birdmove - 12-12-2017
I just bought a can of pepper spray I intend to use as dog protection. I am getting back into bike riding, but have a bad right knee. So, I can't outrun dogs any more. And, darn if I'm going to give it up for good because of loose dogs. Pepper spray is an option. I hope I never have to use it.
Walk softly and carry a big stick.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - randomq - 12-12-2017
Hmm, so I regularly have a machete, manual but lock open pocket knife, or both in my truck. Am I already breaking the law? What separates a dagger from a knife?
Also, us HA land owners own our private roads, so technically I can probably carry all over my neighborhood and into any consenting friend's property anyway.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - oink - 12-12-2017
Sheese, HOTPE! There is room for debate on the CCW aspect as that's still being litigated in several places. You are totally wrong on the other aspects of the 2nd and what the founders intended. The SCOTUS has decided it. Decided it for the whole U.S. including Hawaii and Puna. You can dream and wish anything you want but it's moot.
Your analogy of the tire iron is incorrect. While some "weapons" are illegal just by their design and as described by statute, others are illegal by use. You wouldn't be the first person to be arrested for CCW for carrying a tire iron, or aggravated assault, or armed robbery, armed home invasion, etc., or whatever those offences are called in Hawaii. A screwdriver is a screwdriver in your garage. Out on someone else's property at night it's a burglary tool.
As for OC spray. I'm guessing I've used it on other people and dogs more than anyone on this forum. I've probably been exposed to it more than anyone else too. It doesn't work very well on dogs and inconsistently at the level it does work at. Assuming wind and weather is appropriate it works amazingly well on people sometimes and very poorly at others. For police work it's a great tool/toy when you can back it up with something else when it fails. For use on walks against a determined pit bull, etc., it's a very unreliable choice. It bothers them a little. A good spear might work if that was legal. I don't know what the answer is for dog plagued streets in areas of HPP, etc. other than to abandon them to the dogs. The police can't do much if they don't know who the owner is. It's an animal control issue if those resources worthwhile. My experience with animal control is that they will make a pass or two and if they don't see them or can't catch them they move on to the next call. I've known a few troublesome neighborhood dogs to get mysteriously assassinated during midnight shift when the problem went unresolved. I'm not advocating anyone do that.
While out walking I almost shot a couple of dogs in my neighborhood. It was strange that when I was at wits end and finally decided to shoot them and I pulled roscoe out and was not more than a second from popping them they seemed to understand and withdrew. Whew! I got the word to the owners that their dogs almost died. I noticed the fence was fixed the next time I went by. A dog will die before I get attacked. I can deal with the consequences better without a maimed body. It's sad areas like HPP are plagued with loose dogs the way they are with no resolution in sight.
Years ago (30+) in Mo. I knew an animal control officer that carried a gun. He shot dogs regularly. If they were aggressive he shot them. If he couldn't catch the strays he shot them. That would never fly today but he was very efficient. I can just imagine the outcry if they did that in Puna. But no more loose dogs...
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process - PaulW - 12-13-2017
That’s not really the situation in HPP, we have some loose dogs but not that many. At the NW Meeting every month we are encouraged to report them (esp. ones in the same place every day) and I have seen the effect myself, it works. As always, guns are a complete overreaction. When you have a hammer...