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+--- Thread: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? (/showthread.php?tid=22678)
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - Obie - 05-08-2022
It's a mountain that is the best place in the Northern hemisphere to place a telescope.
How hard is that to understand ?
The TMT was going to be in a spot that no one had ever used for anything. Not visible from most of the island.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-08-2022
properly isolated and segregated as it should be, others not welcome.
And you think that comment best describes the minset of scientists?
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - TomK - 05-08-2022
For some, it seems that if you don't have the ability to argue a point then you might as well invent some which are much easier to attack.
PS. Even those that protested the TMT oppose bill 2024.
https://www.kitv.com/news/mauna-kea-protectors-oppose-new-bill/article_adb779a0-cddd-11ec-b0de-678098a48594.html
"The bill is opposed by DLNR, UH and now the Protectors of Mauna Kea who stopped construction of the controversial 30 Meter telescope in 2019."
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - HawaiiEV - 05-08-2022
I don’t have an opinion either way on the matter, I was merely repeating everything I heard on here with 10% dose of mocking. Not gonna change any perspectives on here I know.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - TomK - 05-09-2022
Yes, obviously, you don't have an opinion either way.
"You don’t have to mention race, creed or color to be a bigot. We know who you are, you made that clear. Amazingly you claim to have lived here for decades but still think like you do, even willing to share on a public forum as a representation of all that is wrong with this situation. It’s one thing to argue like I have been with people here about topics they disagree, tying to constructively and rationally hope for a shared understanding. It’s another thing just to throw out statements which only serve to marginalize and deride. Serves no purpose, certainly not helping shed a good light on this forum and the click in residence.
The PR campaign continues. Haoles that hate the people who were here when they arrived and the intolerant scientist who accepts no understanding beyond his own."
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - Durian Fiend - 05-10-2022
(05-06-2022, 06:17 AM)TomK Wrote: Just a couple of responses to the bill being passed, the first by UH president Lassner:More from that link:
https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2022/05/05/president-statement-on-maunakea-bill-hb-2024/
"What saddens me most is not the creation of a new Authority but that a completely false narrative that UH is mismanaging Maunakea drove this legislation. I have personally acknowledged and apologized publicly on multiple occasions for UH mismanagement of Maunakea in the previous century. Since then, UH has been on a trajectory of continuous improvement for over 20 years including: the 2000 Master Plan; the creation of the Maunakea Ranger program to protect public safety; establishment of the Office of Maunakea Management under UH Hilo; creation of the community-based Maunakea Management Board and Kahu Kū Mauna Native Hawaiian Advisory Council; adoption of Administrative Rules in the face of extraordinary challenges; the support and resourcing of the ʻImiloa Astronomy Center; regular monitoring of over 260 historic, archaeological and cultural sites identified by extensive UH surveys; and removal of invasive species. Compelling indicators of our success include removal of the endemic wēkiu bug from candidacy as an endangered species thanks to UH research and discovery of a previously unknown population of petrels on Maunakea through UH-sponsored field studies."
" Ultimately, the weight of our practices last century and opposition to TMT on Maunakea were enough to drive the passage of this legislation. Some supporters just wanted a change. Ironically, both supporters of astronomy and TMT on Maunakea, and opponents of astronomy and TMT on Maunakea, see this legislation as the solution that will achieve their objectives. We fervently hope that change for change’s sake does not lead to a diminution of either or both of the excellent stewardship of Maunakea or Hawaiʻi’s world-class astronomy program that has been achieved under UH leadership."
Apparently it's difficult to move on from the 20th century. Which supporters believe this change will be helpful?
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - kalakoa - 05-10-2022
Compare/contrast, and ask "where is the protest"?
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/05/kamehameha-schools-wants-to-build-a-culturally-sensitive-boutique-resort-on-big-island/
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-10-2022
Compare/contrast
“The goal is to honor our Native Hawaiian culture,” Marissa Harman, director of asset management at Kamehameha Schools, told Civil Beat in an interview last week.
Another goal is to generate revenue and long-term economic returns for Kamehameha Schools… The school’s endowment was valued at $14.7 billion in 2021.
Building a resort on the sacred birthplace of one of the Kamehameha's? Crowding a local beach with tourists? That sounds somewhat worse than building a road so the summit of Mauna Kea can be accessed by Native Hawaiians, along with another goal of researching the heavens by astronomers. Neither of which will pack the mountain top with tourists who distract cultural and religious practitioners, or astronomers.
$14 billion (Kam Schools) sounds like a lot, lot more than $2 billion (TMT) if mauka summit Protectors and makai beach Protectors are extracting concessions. Of course, Kam Schools already provides a top quality education for Native Hawaiians and the TMT backers offer STEM scholarships. Has anyone noticed where the Protector camp is for those benefits?
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - HawaiiEV - 05-10-2022
Isn’t that next to the outrigger? You don’t see a difference between the desolate mountain top and an already crowded developed area near Kona? I don’t know the specifics of the spiritual aspects but i gather Mauna Kea a more sacred place. This is besides the fact that kamehameha schools is it’s own organization that owns the land and wishes to use it for their own purposes.
RE: Astronomy in Hawaii under threat? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-10-2022
i gather Mauna Kea a more sacred place.
Sacredness is a sliding scale?