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+--- Thread: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=17312)
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RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - PaulW - 02-12-2017
"Mauna Kea should not be turned into a target for tourism, terrorist, hostile countries or deadly aliens today. jmo"
How many time do you have to be told that the telescope has no military application? Can you read?
Why would anyone want to attack a telescope - except for deluded luddites like yourself of course.
As for tourism, it was YOU who proposed turning MK into a ski resort.
Electricity comes from the grid, so the telescope will be powered by the panels on my roof, amongst others.
Aliens are the least of our worries, much bigger threat on Earth from the willfully stupid. Jmo
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-12-2017
a target for... deadly aliens today. jmo
the pain and injury that the TMT project is already causing for some.
Are there highly paid people really standing outside in the cold elements
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. It is an area which we call The Gypsy Zone.
No child will ever again doubt they could grow up and someday become president of the United States
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - punaticbychoice - 02-12-2017
Don't try to be rational with the anti-TMT types.
It's a waste of time.
This whole issue is a convergence of "liberal" / "progressive" guilt,
OHA/DHHL political and financial opportunism. And the uselessness of our civil / political system.
There is no chance of a restored Hawaiian State of whatever kind.
We all have to understand those things and move forward.
Yes to TMT, yes to using our resources to make a wonderful and livable home for us all.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - galileo - 02-12-2017
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. It is an area which we call The Gypsy Zone.
Here's a relevant comment posted to Richard Ha's article "Why I Have a Problem with the Anti-TMT Movement".
http://www.hamakuasprings.com/2015/05/why-i-have-a-problem-with-the-anti-tmt-movement/
quote:
I have lived on Oahu for over a decade and I have come to realize that the educated Hawaiians and the silent majority, it is the deluded morons who are the obnoxious voice of the people. No matter what the topic we are discussing, they will throw out the raping of their aina by foreigners.
Point out to them, facts and statistics and they will accuse you of racism. Point out their own hand in the overthrowing of their Queen because they wanted the freedoms and opportunities that US citizenship promised them and they will punch you because they can’t dispute your statement.
When you read the history of how the US invaded Hawaii, you will understand the delusion these people are living under.
I have tried to explain using economics and the actual process to become a state, but they usually reply with some heartfelt sentiment. If you asked them to make a list of their concerns about the TMT, they will take the opportunity to complain about their sovereignty rights or more money needed for Hawaiian programs or scholarships.
I’m so sick of hearing about the home of the Gods and Hawaiian rights every time a building gets built. You should see how angry they get when you ask them to pray to Pele to defend her home and wipe out all of the invaders on Mauna Kea. I then suggest that if Pele doesn’t respond in a week, she must not have any issues with the telescopes.
Honestly, most of the protesters must have forgotten that only the royalty actually owned the land and much of the land was sold off to foreigners. Honestly, the old system was much better when we could just throw women off of the Pali. I’m not sure if that was true or racist, but I’m sure some local expert will be more than happy to not correct me and go straight to the name calling. If Hawaii were truly invaded, they could press their claims under the Hague convention, but I doubt the majority of them would risk losing that case. There is just too much documentation showing how Hawaii petitioned to become a state.
We can discuss the TMT until we’re blue in the face, but no amount of protest will prevent it from being built, there’s simply too much resources involved. We should just allow the bleeding heart liberals a few moments to rant about their aina and Gods and freedom because it will be as effective as their protest.
The only reason there is so much support against TMT is because everyone wants their 5 minutes of fame, but statistics will tell you that 53,000 signature isn’t even 1% of the population. They have had their day in court and lost, the Governor no longer supports them and UH no longer supports them so they resort to sitting on the road to delay construction for a few weeks. Eventually UH will have to declare that area off limits for protesters and this will give the police the authorization to arrest all trespassers and we will no longer have to hear about the land weeping and the protesters can get back to campaigning for the legalisation of marijuana.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - Eric1600 - 02-12-2017
quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Paul Neves emotional testimony sheds some light onto the pain and injury that the TMT project is already causing for some.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2017/02/11/video-paul-neves-tmt-contested-case-testimony/
Mauna Kea was a peaceful and calm mountain for many centuries or lifetimes. Mauna Kea should not be turned into a target for tourism, terrorist, hostile countries or deadly aliens today. jmo
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/tech/lasers-hide-earth-aliens-astronomers-irpt/
The large lasers being used on Mauna Kea by some of the telescopes are very impressive. Here is a time-lapse video of these powerful lasers.
http://www.openculture.com/2013/10/stunning-time-lapse-of-lasers-at-the-mauna-kea-observatories-in-hawaii.html
Would anyone know how much electricity is needed for these lasers to work, say for one minute, one hour, one night?
Are there highly paid people really standing outside in the cold elements by these telescopes when they use these lasers? If so, Are they looking for airplanes to prevent possible blinding of pilots?
Would the TMT'S laser be bigger or more powerful than the other lasers currently being used on Mauna Kea?
Would the PGV power plant here in Puna be providing any of the electricity that may be needed to operate the TMT and it's laser in the future?
I was under the impression that it would be wrong to bring Pele or her "PGV gifts" to the place she was buried at the "summit of Mauna kea".
http://mythicalrealm.com/mythical-gods-legends/pele-goddess-of-fire-hawaii/
would this proposed TMT project also be including a dining restaurant, swimming pool or maybe a squash court like other large telescopes around the world provide for their astronomers? Why or why not for the TMT?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/20/spot-alien-life-european-extremely-large-telescope-chilean
Edited, only to add question and link.
Wow. So the Paul Neves video is not working. And for some reason his written testimony doesn't seem to be in evidence on-line. If you have a point regarding Neves, then let's hear it.
Your understanding of lasers is not very good. These lasers are not very powerful and will not travel very far into space. They are designed to light up inside our atmosphere by illuminating the dust. They might "look scary" but they are designed to reflect off of stuff in our own atmosphere and they are pretty weak in terms of power. If you want to really learn about them then read this about the Laser Guide Star Facility http://ao4elt.edpsciences.org/articles/ao4elt/pdf/2010/01/ao4elt_04004.pdf
PEAK POWER 150 Watts or 25W per 6 beams. Pretty wimpy and probably wouldn't reach past the moon much less our solar system.
I've switched many of my 100W bulbs to LED which has saved about 500 watts of power so my contribution to the TMT's laser guide star should cover it.
I'm not going to even indulge you on the whole alien nonsense.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-12-2017
Your understanding of lasers is not very good.
gypsy, let me add to that observation above. I worked a few feet away from the Star Wars laser (when powered down) on Maui while it was in it's test phase during the '90's. Shockingly I have lived to tell you the tale of it's operation:
1) It did not draw an enormous amount of electricity.
2) The laser did not attract aliens.
3) It was, in fact, used by the military at a dedicated Air Force observatory. Although in a high security area, it was not by any means secret. Everybody on Maui knew about it at the time, not just a few imaginative zealots.
4) Since the Air Force already has an observatory in Hawaii they don't need a second one a few hundred miles away on the Big Island.
5) The Star Wars laser was different in application and power from the lasers at astronomical observatories. One was a weapon.
No child will ever again doubt they could grow up and someday become president of the United States
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - kalakoa - 02-12-2017
Would the PGV power plant here in Puna be providing any of the electricity that may be needed to operate the TMT and it's laser in the future?
Yes, and millions of tourists will come to PGV to witness this impressive technological feat.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 02-12-2017
Scary, isn't it? But don't worry, the mega-powerful 20-W lasers at the Kecks will destroy any alien invasion force before they can even land. Imagine that, a laser that uses less power than a typical household light bulb being such a lethal weapon.
Eric - minor correction - the lasers excite sodium atoms in the upper atmosphere (not dust) to produce an "artificial guide star". I doubt any laser light even leaves the upper atmosphere as the light gets absorbed in the sodium layer.
But if lasers are such a scary technology, then we need to shut down all the places and people that use them, including hospitals, eye surgeons, CD, DVD and Blueray manufacturers, most industries, law enforcement, and shops.
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-12-2017
we need to shut down... CD, DVD and Blueray manufacturers
There goes gypsy's most reliable source of information about aliens.
No child will ever again doubt they could grow up and someday become president of the United States
RE: TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo - TomK - 02-12-2017
Kalakoa,
"I didn't realize AI software had a gender."
AI means artificial intelligence. In this case, there is no intelligence, artificial or otherwise, so suggest your post is simply a red herring.
