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+--- Thread: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 (/showthread.php?tid=4302)
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Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Rob Tucker - 09-12-2008
You Said You Want A Revolution....
by Tim Padgett
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1838753,00.html
The short and sweet on roundabouts in America
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - kaptkimo - 09-13-2008
Rob, Thanks for posting this article. It makes it easier for people to understand how "RoundAbouts" work. As Carol and I have noticed when we try to promote them to the local folks it seems they are equating "RoundAbouts" with the old "Traffic Circles" which many times required you to stop your vehicle in order to enter the circle. No, No, No, NOT SO! Roundabouts would be great for Puna -- People will love them once they get accustomed to them. Thanks again, Rob... (p.s. Enjoyed meeting you at the Nanawale Block Party on Saturday.)
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Guest - 09-13-2008
Ok... so all of those in favor of these roundabouts... Please weigh in at what intersection you feel they would be best on Highway 130 if you think they should be part of the Highway 130 plan.
I don't think it's viable to have them all over the place and I'm very worried about the night time lighting to make these things clearly marked and visible.
I understand educating drivers on the things...but how many lives will be lost in that education process? Education begins the day you receive your learners permit and if people in general would be safer drivers then many accidents wouldn't happen.
I've still got a stick up my ass about the lighting though.
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Glob
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Bob Orts - 09-14-2008
quote:First a point of clarification. Roundabouts do not reduce accident, they increase accidents. What is reduced or virtually eliminated are the catastrophic & fatal accidents. There are no head ons, T-bones, or things like that. There are also fewer pedestrian fatalities at roundabouts. What increases are fender benders, sideswipes, rear ending and the bang to a pedestrian from time to time. But since these are at relative lower speeds, people are generally more forgiving.
Originally posted by Damon
Education begins the day you receive your learners permit and if people in general would be safer drivers then many accidents wouldn't happen.
quote:Before any suggestion, I need to know is 130 by rights a class A, B, C vehicle route?, Will it remain that way or are there plans for an alternative route or restrictions? If As, Bs or Cs are allowed by right, what are the counts between Keaau and Pahoa?
Originally posted by Damon
Please weigh in at what intersection you feel they would be best on Highway 130 if you think they should be part of the Highway 130 plan.
Are you asking based on current lanes or widening?
Are you willing to support a suggestion even if it requires government to take someone’s private property under eminent domain to accomplish it?
Is 130 still designated an emergency (civil defense) route?
Is there a link to the traffic study conducted as a prerequisite to determining intersection or roundabout along 130? If none conducted by government, do you have a link to any traffic study (as simple and basic as it may be) by any person? I’m sure you realize that anyone opening their mouth about roundabouts had to be basing it on some real information and not just because it was done someplace else. So I’m sure they are all willing to provide you their information if you ask.
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Guest - 09-14-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts
Before any suggestion, I need to know is 130 by rights a class A, B, C vehicle route?, Will it remain that way or are there plans for an alternative route or restrictions? If As, Bs or Cs are allowed by right, what are the counts between Keaau and Pahoa?
Are you asking based on current lanes or widening?
Are you willing to support a suggestion even if it requires government to take someone’s private property under eminent domain to accomplish it?
Is 130 still designated an emergency (civil defense) route?
Is there a link to the traffic study conducted as a prerequisite to determining intersection or roundabout along 130? If none conducted by government, do you have a link to any traffic study (as simple and basic as it may be) by any person? I’m sure you realize that anyone opening their mouth about roundabouts had to be basing it on some real information and not just because it was done someplace else. So I’m sure they are all willing to provide you their information if you ask.
Bob - I looked for an answer to your classification question, and I'm still learning about this project myself.... so I don't have an answer for you at this time.
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Glob
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Guest - 09-14-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts
Are you asking based on current lanes or widening?
Are you willing to support a suggestion even if it requires government to take someone’s private property under eminent domain to accomplish it?
Forgot to answer one keen question Mr. Orts asked.
The State is going to condemn land. That's a given. How much... who knows... and where... who knows...
I hope to be able to encourage the condemning of the right lands with as little condemning as possible. I'm only one of about 20 people on this advisory board... You can talk to others on this panel.... Rep. Hanohano, Council Lady Naeole, Candidate Fred Blas, etc... and a few others that are on this board.... I think many of us on this board don't know what the hell is happening... yet we are participating so that we can make an input. We aren't politicking and we are trying to come together for everyone in Puna.
It sucks that condemning land might be needed[V]
And as a side note...this is one subject that one member on the board brought up in regards to the sunshine laws... is it would suck for someone to find out that a part of their property may be condemned from a message board or a blog instead of direct notice from the State.
No worry beef curry... you know? It's not like any of us on the Advisory Board wants to condemn anyones land personally...that I can think of.
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Glob
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Guest - 09-14-2008
quote:Mr. Orts,
Originally posted by Bob Orts
Is there a link to the traffic study conducted as a prerequisite to determining intersection or roundabout along 130? If none conducted by government, do you have a link to any traffic study (as simple and basic as it may be) by any person?
At the last advisory meeting, all of the board was given a log that we are required to report on our driving habits for 7 days straight, from 4:00 am until we go to sleep. We were also given cameras to make 15 pictures 5 of each different categories that they asked us.
I hope they are not basing there analysis of 20 people on this panel.
If you would like to continue discussions on the Highway 130 Project towards me directly... please comment towards my blog below. You can look at the right hand side and look at the categories, I have made a category specifically for H-130.
I myself am skeptical about what input the "STATE" will actually listen to us. I don't want to waste my "5" posts a day trying to answer your questions here.
I'm open to anyone's comments, although I do moderate comments made by people that are obviously on a mission for something I don't care for.
Open government is the only way we can get people involved. I'm glad Mr. Orts is questioning my involvement in the project... Just as I question the STATE on why they want to control Puna issues.
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Glob
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Rob Tucker - 09-14-2008
It is a big mistake to try to plan transportation and get caught up in playing "winners and losers". Land gets condemned for public purposes all the time. That's the only way it works. No one I know of has cried a tear over driving the Keaau bypass or Pahoa bypass. Why not? Every inch was condemned eminent domain land. When you drive those routes you are driving where homes once stood.
Any decision made on any road can and will produce effects on landowners. The effects may not be all bad. Having a property and a mortgage might be turned into having a house and no mortgage by the act of condemnation of part of the property.
I am not saying just be callous. But transportation needs to be decised on the basis of the best interests of the community. Property owners will be compensated.
Punaweb moderator
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Kapohocat - 09-15-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts... Roundabouts do not reduce accident, they increase accidents. What is reduced or virtually eliminated are the catastrophic & fatal accidents. There are no head ons, T-bones, or things like that. There are also fewer pedestrian fatalities at roundabouts. What increases are fender benders, sideswipes, rear ending and the bang to a pedestrian from time to time. But since these are at relative lower speeds, people are generally more forgiving.
As my brother the pilot says, any landing you walk away from is a good one. I would apply this to the roundabouts too. Any accident you walk away from is a not a bad one. [8D]
Damon - is the money already allocated for the stop light at Hwy 130/Malama Market/Kahakai Blvd?
RE: Time Magazine on Roundabouts 9/15/08 - Guest - 09-15-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Kapohocat
Damon - is the money already allocated for the stop light at Hwy 130/Malama Market/Kahakai Blvd?
I don't know what the exact plans are right now. Things are still being tossed around as far as I can tell.
*edit* I was 2 million off[
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Glob