06-07-2007, 08:49 AM
I have not found out the reason for the power outage yesterday across upper Puna, but I found it amusing that it was timed perfectly to about 30 minutes after the following email discussion that originated on the Fern Forest email list:
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Hello Neighbors,
Here I thought we'd seen the last of government helicopter searches after some our more thoughtful and intelligent county council members finally stood up for us and rejected money for the Green Harvest program.
At 9 AM today I had a huge black chopper hovering right over my house, no more than 100 feet off the ground. Talk about invasion of privacy! It hovered around for a few minutes and then went up the hill to my closest neighbor and did the same thing. What now, are they all pissed off and trying to harass us because of the funding cut-off? It is such a blatant disregard for the peoples right to peace, tranquility, privacy, safety and all the rest.
I wish someone like Bob J. would at least try to pass a local law about minimum height requirements on the police flights and the tour helicopters. It seems like no one is the least bit concerned about the people on the ground. Thanks for your time.
Aloha, Phil
...
Hi Phil,
The yellow chopper is hovering around my near-neighbors as we write. I agree, it is most nerve-wracking trying to work, think or do anything while helicopters hover above. This nonsense should cease.
Unfortunately, the choppers are in the air due to federal and state funds. It was a good idea for the County Council not to buy into that program, because that money can be better-spent on more urgent needs of this community. But it's not going to stop them from flying. State laws have to do that, so, we need to work with our state sens & reps on this one.
Along with that, we should also request a tax on tour overflights, that is used to improve our districts infrastructure in a way that residents see fit, as (it will be) described in the Hawaii County General Plan / Puna CDP.
Sincerely,
Kim
...
Could these have been the helicopters that were doing arial checks for the power lines?-stephanie
...
And I should have added, to be sure, HELCO doesn't blow a loud siren and yell "Stay where you are, put your hands in the air" through an amplified speaker, to people on the ground. Last year these same aircraft were hovering over someone they saw in the forest and that's what they did. For a mile in either direction, people were hearing the commotion. One of my neighbors had to run around her house locking windows and doors, because "you never know" what'll happen next. She was closest to the "bust" as far as I could tell. But those are rare cases, when they actually find people. Mostly they just pluck the plants and keep going. However, I did see that yellow bird taking off from the ground, at a corner property just off Captain's drive. No, it's not HELCO.
Mahalo,
Kim
...
Hi, Kim.
Taxing the over-flights? As a pilot, I would say, No, for several reasons.
First, areas would have to be marked on a chart so the pilot would know what to avoid. As it is, when there is a temporary flight restriction (TFR), as when an important politician visits an area, the FAA designates the area as a no-go flight area unless one is flying on an instrument flight plan under the continuous monitoring of Air Traffic Control (ATC). TFRs cause problems, because the ATC system does not have the manpower to monitor all flights, and not all pilots are instrument qualified (although I am) to fly with an instrument flight plan.
Second, revenue collection is a zero-sum proposition. Back in New York State, certain airports levied a charge for every (attempted) landing (including crashes). Periodically, each such airport invoiced the landings to the registered owner (using the tail number as identification). Whenever I used any of these airports, this became a nightmare because I had to keep track of every landing, and then reimburse the aircraft owner in advance of the invoice process. The landing fees were arbitrary in amount for each such airport. The airports never really made any money because the landing fee just about covered the cost of administering the fee collection process . . . and the landing fee did discourage pilots from landing and adding to the economy of the area purchasing fuel at $4.00 to $5.00 per gallon (of which $.50 is tax varies by state), visiting tourist attractions, getting something to eat at a restaurant, obtaining aircraft repairs, etc. It also lowered the funding of the airport because the number of landings per year determines the level of government funding support. By the way, an aircraft burns anywhere from five to 18 gallons per hour for a one or two engine small plane.
On a more positive note, I suggest a small task force inquire about the location of airports, and visit them with the goal of talking with pilots, student pilots and rental operations to find out where pilots practice, why they select those areas, and if it s in our area, begin dialogue how such could be turned into a win-win situation for everyone.
I used to do my practicing at 5,000 feet above the Atlantic off the south shore of Long Island, NY. But in Central Florida, we pilots try to avoid residential areas and look for unpopulated areas, and height above ground several thousand feet.
Helicopters are another story. They, too, are supposed to follow the rules of courtesy and not annoy people hence the need to ascertain just who owns the aircraft and speak with these people. There could be a very good reason why they appear to cause an annoyance or they may not realize it.
One of the ways, for example, to build strong bridges is to request one of the helicopter users to bring a helicopter into the community for the purpose of stimulating positive discussion and free rides to interested people to demonstrate how the aircraft is being used in the area. This promotes better understanding between all parties and eliminates erroneous assumptions.
The FAA and airports usually have monthly meetings open to the public (but usually only attended by the airport community due to publicity constraints), where a variety of topics come up, usually pertaining to flight safety. The organizations holding these meetings would entertain your participation as a non-pilot and input as to how aircraft affect our community. It would be an interesting way to discover both sides of the story and promote understanding and perhaps a change in behavior.
I have my little single engine aircraft based at a busy international airport in Central Florida. The General Aviation hangar facility hosts a BBQ/social the first Friday night of each month, and a nearby aircraft repair facility hosts a pancake breakfast on the third Saturday. The FAA hosts a safety seminar the third Wednesday of each month. All events are free to whomever has an interest in aviation. At these events, one meets pilots, instructors, FAA personnel, and non-pilots. Janet and I attend most of these functions each month to meet new people and foster friendships. I m sure there s something similar on Hawaii.
Regards,
Alan
...
Hi Alan,
You bring up some fine arguments that would work in any normal town. What's happening here is a lot different. The tax I am talking about is basically at the tour-helicopter industry. If included other types of flights, I'd go for that too. I am not a pilot, but I have contracted pilots & helicopters for arial overflights when I was working on invasive tree species (before frogs). So I have been at the other end of the prop-wash, many times. We flew low & slow throughout our surveys, and I'm sure we irritated people. We never survey over subdivisions, only public lands (forest reserves) and other undeveloped forest properties.
In any case, the two most common types of air traffic over Fern Forest are tour helicopters going to the Volcano or back, and then the law enforcement helicopter flights "green harvest", looking for pot plants. Everything else is incidental (for now). The tour traffic amounts to a few flights to a few dozen flights per day, depending on weather & visibility. We get the traffic from Waikoloa / Kona, which is much less than those leaving from Hilo, to the same destination. My friends in lower elevations must endure helicopter flights at a rate of at least a couple every hour, for several hours of every fly-able day. In my opinion, that is excessive and undue infringement on our privacy and peacefulness. But maybe they are being taxed accordingly, but the State isn't divvying out the funds accordingly. I could believe that.
The green harvest flights are the most intrusive and least controllable. It doesn't matter what we think about helicopters flying over our houses, to the law. If pot plants are out there, they mean to find them. It lasts about a week and it happens at least quarterly, but sometimes more often. The flight plans are supposed to be top secret, but it's pretty obvious. They take off and land in the national park, and thought I'm probably five miles away from the landing pad, I hear them all the time. But then, my ears are fine-tuned, due to my coqui frog work and an intolerance for loud sounds, unless absolutely necessary.
Landing a chopper at the Community Center will never go well. That used to happen a lot a few decades ago, but these days, they get the first-hand view more often than they'd really like. They might be inclined to take a free ride, but I doubt we'd find anyone to sponsor that here. Jet-A is really expensive here. In 2003 we were paying $640 per hour to charter an OAS certified craft and pilot. Today it's pushing $1K.
In conclusion, I guess I better follow the advice of my neighbors at the community lot, "Get used to it".
Regards,
Kim
...
=-=
Hello Neighbors,
Here I thought we'd seen the last of government helicopter searches after some our more thoughtful and intelligent county council members finally stood up for us and rejected money for the Green Harvest program.
At 9 AM today I had a huge black chopper hovering right over my house, no more than 100 feet off the ground. Talk about invasion of privacy! It hovered around for a few minutes and then went up the hill to my closest neighbor and did the same thing. What now, are they all pissed off and trying to harass us because of the funding cut-off? It is such a blatant disregard for the peoples right to peace, tranquility, privacy, safety and all the rest.
I wish someone like Bob J. would at least try to pass a local law about minimum height requirements on the police flights and the tour helicopters. It seems like no one is the least bit concerned about the people on the ground. Thanks for your time.
Aloha, Phil
...
Hi Phil,
The yellow chopper is hovering around my near-neighbors as we write. I agree, it is most nerve-wracking trying to work, think or do anything while helicopters hover above. This nonsense should cease.
Unfortunately, the choppers are in the air due to federal and state funds. It was a good idea for the County Council not to buy into that program, because that money can be better-spent on more urgent needs of this community. But it's not going to stop them from flying. State laws have to do that, so, we need to work with our state sens & reps on this one.
Along with that, we should also request a tax on tour overflights, that is used to improve our districts infrastructure in a way that residents see fit, as (it will be) described in the Hawaii County General Plan / Puna CDP.
Sincerely,
Kim
...
Could these have been the helicopters that were doing arial checks for the power lines?-stephanie
...
And I should have added, to be sure, HELCO doesn't blow a loud siren and yell "Stay where you are, put your hands in the air" through an amplified speaker, to people on the ground. Last year these same aircraft were hovering over someone they saw in the forest and that's what they did. For a mile in either direction, people were hearing the commotion. One of my neighbors had to run around her house locking windows and doors, because "you never know" what'll happen next. She was closest to the "bust" as far as I could tell. But those are rare cases, when they actually find people. Mostly they just pluck the plants and keep going. However, I did see that yellow bird taking off from the ground, at a corner property just off Captain's drive. No, it's not HELCO.
Mahalo,
Kim
...
Hi, Kim.
Taxing the over-flights? As a pilot, I would say, No, for several reasons.
First, areas would have to be marked on a chart so the pilot would know what to avoid. As it is, when there is a temporary flight restriction (TFR), as when an important politician visits an area, the FAA designates the area as a no-go flight area unless one is flying on an instrument flight plan under the continuous monitoring of Air Traffic Control (ATC). TFRs cause problems, because the ATC system does not have the manpower to monitor all flights, and not all pilots are instrument qualified (although I am) to fly with an instrument flight plan.
Second, revenue collection is a zero-sum proposition. Back in New York State, certain airports levied a charge for every (attempted) landing (including crashes). Periodically, each such airport invoiced the landings to the registered owner (using the tail number as identification). Whenever I used any of these airports, this became a nightmare because I had to keep track of every landing, and then reimburse the aircraft owner in advance of the invoice process. The landing fees were arbitrary in amount for each such airport. The airports never really made any money because the landing fee just about covered the cost of administering the fee collection process . . . and the landing fee did discourage pilots from landing and adding to the economy of the area purchasing fuel at $4.00 to $5.00 per gallon (of which $.50 is tax varies by state), visiting tourist attractions, getting something to eat at a restaurant, obtaining aircraft repairs, etc. It also lowered the funding of the airport because the number of landings per year determines the level of government funding support. By the way, an aircraft burns anywhere from five to 18 gallons per hour for a one or two engine small plane.
On a more positive note, I suggest a small task force inquire about the location of airports, and visit them with the goal of talking with pilots, student pilots and rental operations to find out where pilots practice, why they select those areas, and if it s in our area, begin dialogue how such could be turned into a win-win situation for everyone.
I used to do my practicing at 5,000 feet above the Atlantic off the south shore of Long Island, NY. But in Central Florida, we pilots try to avoid residential areas and look for unpopulated areas, and height above ground several thousand feet.
Helicopters are another story. They, too, are supposed to follow the rules of courtesy and not annoy people hence the need to ascertain just who owns the aircraft and speak with these people. There could be a very good reason why they appear to cause an annoyance or they may not realize it.
One of the ways, for example, to build strong bridges is to request one of the helicopter users to bring a helicopter into the community for the purpose of stimulating positive discussion and free rides to interested people to demonstrate how the aircraft is being used in the area. This promotes better understanding between all parties and eliminates erroneous assumptions.
The FAA and airports usually have monthly meetings open to the public (but usually only attended by the airport community due to publicity constraints), where a variety of topics come up, usually pertaining to flight safety. The organizations holding these meetings would entertain your participation as a non-pilot and input as to how aircraft affect our community. It would be an interesting way to discover both sides of the story and promote understanding and perhaps a change in behavior.
I have my little single engine aircraft based at a busy international airport in Central Florida. The General Aviation hangar facility hosts a BBQ/social the first Friday night of each month, and a nearby aircraft repair facility hosts a pancake breakfast on the third Saturday. The FAA hosts a safety seminar the third Wednesday of each month. All events are free to whomever has an interest in aviation. At these events, one meets pilots, instructors, FAA personnel, and non-pilots. Janet and I attend most of these functions each month to meet new people and foster friendships. I m sure there s something similar on Hawaii.
Regards,
Alan
...
Hi Alan,
You bring up some fine arguments that would work in any normal town. What's happening here is a lot different. The tax I am talking about is basically at the tour-helicopter industry. If included other types of flights, I'd go for that too. I am not a pilot, but I have contracted pilots & helicopters for arial overflights when I was working on invasive tree species (before frogs). So I have been at the other end of the prop-wash, many times. We flew low & slow throughout our surveys, and I'm sure we irritated people. We never survey over subdivisions, only public lands (forest reserves) and other undeveloped forest properties.
In any case, the two most common types of air traffic over Fern Forest are tour helicopters going to the Volcano or back, and then the law enforcement helicopter flights "green harvest", looking for pot plants. Everything else is incidental (for now). The tour traffic amounts to a few flights to a few dozen flights per day, depending on weather & visibility. We get the traffic from Waikoloa / Kona, which is much less than those leaving from Hilo, to the same destination. My friends in lower elevations must endure helicopter flights at a rate of at least a couple every hour, for several hours of every fly-able day. In my opinion, that is excessive and undue infringement on our privacy and peacefulness. But maybe they are being taxed accordingly, but the State isn't divvying out the funds accordingly. I could believe that.
The green harvest flights are the most intrusive and least controllable. It doesn't matter what we think about helicopters flying over our houses, to the law. If pot plants are out there, they mean to find them. It lasts about a week and it happens at least quarterly, but sometimes more often. The flight plans are supposed to be top secret, but it's pretty obvious. They take off and land in the national park, and thought I'm probably five miles away from the landing pad, I hear them all the time. But then, my ears are fine-tuned, due to my coqui frog work and an intolerance for loud sounds, unless absolutely necessary.
Landing a chopper at the Community Center will never go well. That used to happen a lot a few decades ago, but these days, they get the first-hand view more often than they'd really like. They might be inclined to take a free ride, but I doubt we'd find anyone to sponsor that here. Jet-A is really expensive here. In 2003 we were paying $640 per hour to charter an OAS certified craft and pilot. Today it's pushing $1K.
In conclusion, I guess I better follow the advice of my neighbors at the community lot, "Get used to it".
Regards,
Kim
...