OHA Press Release regarding Lahaina

[TomK]

And still, the haole guys still think the issue is the telescope, or the safety of the road, or the bombs they dropped on the island. They still think everyone's brains work like their's do. They still think folks all have the same values, and concerns. Instead of recognizing that there are differences, they impose their's on everyone. And anyone that would say otherwise, they deem unfit.

Thank you for speaking for all haoles. I'm sure you must be correct given your history of also talking for Hawaiians.

[ironyak]

Quick addendum about the area where the fire likely started - the community made maps for the Pioneer Mill camps in the 1940s, mark these areas south of Lahainaluna Rd as Cane field so combined with the terrain features seen in Google Maps, it seems that this Bishop Estate area was unmanaged former cane field.

Also ran across multiple letters to the editors including this one from 2020 calling for establishing a Community Park in this Bishop Estates area bordering Lahainaluna Road, given its unmanaged state since Pioneer Mill closed and the tendency for wildfires to race through here including destroying a home in 2018. Unfortunately, this area was a demonstrated hazard and grim portent of the recent tragedy.

[Durian Fiend]

Likely started? There is an eyewitness who shot video of where the fire started from a downed power line.

In today's news,

"According to FEMA’s risk index, the Big Island in Hawaii has a risk index higher than nearly 98 percent of all other counties in the United States, while Maui has an index higher than nearly 88 percent of all other counties."

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...jxD-OKlFNs

[ironyak]

Sounds pretty defeatist to me.  As if you know the answer already and there is nothing to do.  Might as well bow down to the royalty eh?  Land & Power is a book, it doesn't need to be our continued reality.

If you want to tilt at those particular windmills, have at it. I've just put some nameplates on them.

Wildfires don't care about our imaginary property lines, governmental org charts, or the movement of green pieces of paper. They care about the physical reality of fuel, oxygen, and spark and all our current practices being called out (unmanaged invasive grasses and development at the WUI, ever-growing greenhouse gas emissions fueling greater droughts and hurricane winds, overhead power lines without methods of deenergizing the grid without shutting off waterpumps, etc) just exacerbates the risks.

Establishing firebreaks is part of the physical changes necessary and whether this is accomplished through requirements on landholders, or DNLR or OHA stepping up, or a citizen's brigade armed with weed whackers and goats, doesn't really matter. What matters is the changes to the physical reality we all actually live in first and foremost.

[HiloJulie]

If you want to tilt at those particular windmills, have at it. I've just put some nameplates on them.

Wildfires don't care about our imaginary property lines, governmental org charts, or the movement of green pieces of paper. They care about the physical reality of fuel, oxygen, and spark and all our current practices being called out (unmanaged invasive grasses and development at the WUI, ever-growing greenhouse gas emissions fueling greater droughts and hurricane winds, overhead power lines without methods of deenergizing the grid without shutting off waterpumps, etc) just exacerbates the risks.

Establishing firebreaks is part of the physical changes necessary and whether this is accomplished through requirements on landholders, or DNLR or OHA stepping up, or a citizen's brigade armed with weed whackers and goats, doesn't really matter. What matters is the changes to the physical reality we all actually live in first and foremost.

When you put it this way, I agree with you 100% 

I especially love the word spin of the terms “Global Warming” and “Climate Change” that you have so eloquently used.

[ironyak]

Likely started?  There is an eyewitness who shot video of where the fire started from a downed power line.

Which I linked to above? Problem of course is that we don't know, and may never know, if that was the only source of ignition. Lots of depowering events were logged so I try to be clear in my language where inference is being used.

The Hazards index map is interesting but really shows some limitations in being based on county. Big Island Drought risks are Very Low (because it's only based on agricultural crop impacts) but Rivertine Flooding is Relatively High. Any chance FEMA will break down these risks by ahupua'a? Those boundaries probably make more physical sense.

[randomq]

Sounds to me like Bishop Estate should be listed on the lawsuit alongside of (or instead of) Hawaiian Electric. Maybe if we charged them reasonable taxes on their enormous fallow land holdings they would be sold to someone that would do something productive with them?

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine if these descendants of ali'i are colonizers, westerners, or what, but they are definitely in the 1%!

[AaronM]

As far as the Kanaka go, we could always cede Molokai, Lanai, Niihau and Kahoolave to the Hawaiian Kingdom and have those interested in sovereignty move there.

Not that anything remotely close to that will ever happen. We could maybe turn existing DHHL lands into a Federally recognized tribal reservation but that also seems unlikely.

Most likely result is that the connected and wealthy Hawaiians will continue to use their millions (50 per year according to Yak) of dollars to enrich themselves while the vast majority of Hawaiians live hand to mouth. Sorta like it was when there was a Kingdom, eh? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[TomK]

As far as the Kanaka go, we could always cede Molokai, Lanai, Niihau and Kahoolave to the Hawaiian Kingdom and have those interested in sovereignty move there. 

Not that anything remotely close to that will ever happen.  We could maybe turn existing DHHL lands into a Federally recognized tribal reservation but that also seems unlikely.

Most likely result is that the connected and wealthy Hawaiians will continue to use their millions (50 per year according to Yak) of dollars to enrich themselves while the vast majority of Hawaiians live hand to mouth.  Sorta like it was when there was a Kingdom, eh?  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Why do you keep using the word "we"? Who is "we"?

[MyManao]

Why do you keep using the word "we"? Who is "we"?

It's all about you Tom. It's alway you. You you you.