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"TMT was warned about the potential backlash/protest. The entity did everything they could to provide "more" than the $1.00 (yes, one (1) measly US dollar) per year lease rent. Good. However, there are still machinations going on with both sides. No question in my mind."
The lease or rent stuff keeps coming up. The observatories pay more than $1 per year. Their lease agreement is 15% of observing time is given to UH. It's expensive and more than the TMT will pay. The joint Astronomy Centre spent around one million dollars a year in "rent". A telescope like Gemini costs around $50,000 a night to run. That means nearly $3 million in rent every year.
It is not the fault of the observatories that their leases require this and the money might not go to where everyone wants it. An enormous amount of money is being provided by the observatories to higher education already - several million dollars a year. If rent is needed then the leases with UH need to be broken, but am not sure how that happens.
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In order for any agreement to be deemed legally binding, it must include consideration. That's why it's a dollar/year or whatever. Real estate leases are generally annual, so, the dollar a year would make sense. It may look shady, but again, it's just a way to validate the agreement.
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The current master lease for the Mauna Kea science reserve is slated to expire in 2033. Each of the existing telescopes will have to renew their lease if the master lease gets extended. The lease rent will be increased at that time.
As it stands now, the science reserve lease extension is on hold until more consultations with Native Hawaiians can be conducted. However, if the TMT can't move forward, there will less incentive to extend lease.
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quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
TMT cannot provide "reparation", nor should they (not their fight), and has permits to proceed. If the Supreme Court rules otherwise (which is quite possible; reference US Federal law. "106" will be presented as case history with regard to funding of TMT; oral arguments set for August) it could be a problem for all of us. TMT will appeal, sue the State, etc., etc., etc. Hot freaking mess.
I have a letter from the Advisory Council for Historical Preservation that says otherwise. The letter was dated June 25, 2014. It states the cooperative agreement between the National Science Foundation and the Thirty Meter Telescopes doesn't require a Federal Section 106 consultation. The NSF grant isn't being used for construction of the telescope, but to create a national partnership plan that involves the TMT.
The Advisory Council for Historical Preservation is the Federal government entity that oversees all Federal agencies compliance with historical preservation laws.
The current appeal that will be heard by the Hawaii Supreme Court details with these four points, and only these four points.
http://www.courts.state.hi.us/courts/ora...edule.html
No. SCAP-14-0000873, Thursday, August 27, 2015 , 8:45 a.m
(1) the trial court was wrong and reversibly erred when it found that the BLNR's approval of CDUP HA-3568 prior to the contested case hearing did not warrant reversal;
(2) the circuit court was wrong and reversibly erred by affirming the BLNR's approval of UHH's CDUA and the reliable, probative and substantial evidence failed to support the findings and conclusions that the eight criteria of HAR [Hawai`i Administrative Rules] ' 13-5-30© were met and such conclusions were wrong;
(3) the circuit court was wrong and reversibly erred when it found that the CDUP was subject to a sufficient management plan; and
(4) the circuit court was wrong and the Board of Land and Natural Resources failed to meet its legal and constitutional obligations in properly identifying and determining the scope of the valued, cultural, historical and natural resources in the petition area; in determining the impact on these resources by the proposed land use in the conservation district; and in failing to take feasible actions to protect such resources by improperly delegating its duties and obligations.
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I started writing something last night but managed to lose it before posting. It was more elaborate than this but this sums it up:
Any pairing of the TMT, the greatest telescope ever built in the greatest location on earth, an artifact completely devoid of any military purpose and dedicated to the collection of pure knowledge for the benefit of all mankind, with Kaho'olawe, an island that had the s__t bombed out of it for decades with everything the military might find amusing to detonate, is going to cause the anti-TMT movement to lose support of those with any objectivity. As pointed out above, regardless of whether this is strictly proper, the sovereignty movement will be tarred with the same brush. I say strictly proper, but if there are rational sovereignty advocates out there who permit this nonsense to be put forth in their name without speaking up, then they actually do deserve part of the blame.
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
I started writing something last night but managed to lose it before posting. It was more elaborate than this but this sums it up:
Any pairing of the TMT, the greatest telescope ever built in the greatest location on earth, an artifact completely devoid of any military purpose and dedicated to the collection of pure knowledge for the benefit of all mankind, with Kaho'olawe, an island that had the s__t bombed out of it for decades with everything the military might find amusing to detonate, is going to cause the anti-TMT movement to lose support of those with any objectivity. As pointed out above, regardless of whether this is strictly proper, the sovereignty movement will be tarred with the same brush. I say strictly proper, but if there are rational sovereignty advocates out there who permit this nonsense to be put forth in their name without speaking up, then they actually do deserve part of the blame.
Ok, so it's ok for a group to spew vile. Then, any satire of such vile will be blamed for society's ills. By some. Read it somewhere.
Highest CO2 reading of over 400ppm ever taken during man kinds existence was recently taken by Maunaloa's observatory. Not sure what those kind of readings mean, or if it is good for our upper atmosphere? NASA says "america leading space science for the next fifty years will prove to be just as important as the last fifty years america has led." Anyone know if or how NASA would be involved with maunakeas observatories, Keck or future TmT? NASA was once sued I thought by OHA for something involving Maunakea a decade ago? Hard to blame OHA, if they are up against NASA funding. Maybe NASA just does not want to recognize the Hawaiian native people, history, or culture? Also some Environmental concerns or impacts atop Maunakea could be being ignored for the greater unknowns of space science?
P.S. Maunaloa observatory keeps taking readings of CO2 that high, they will probably have their funding cut by NASA soon, jmo. Anyone know if the other large world telescopes being built in Chile offer any viewing time to its local population or for local educational purposes? If so, is it comparable to what's being offered around these parts from the use of our resource atop maunakea?
TomK keeps mentioning or throwing these 3 million dollar sweet deals around, I can only assume he is referencing to the viewing time being shared or alloted?. Does our local population receive as sweet a deal with its viewing time as say the Chilean local population? In my Opinion, the Keck observatory is as much at fault with how things have transpired atop Maunakea over the past decade, I also would like to give a big thank you or mahalo to the current observatories and promissed TMT projects. For bringing so many good island people together again(much needed), also for the many reminders of life's important things worth saving, protecting, or living for.
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Gypsy69 this is MK-1, your transmission seems to be breaking up, can you repeat, Gypsy69, - over -
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Anyone know if or how NASA would be involved with maunakeas observatories
The IRTF telescope is a NASA project...
http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/information/about.php
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