Hawaiians, Shorelines & “Mother Ocean’s” Revenge

[TomK]

Kenney - I'm not arguing that the experiences you list aren't real for some people.

[kalakoa]

Rich people for the most part get what they want.

Unless it's a telescope.

[MarkP]

Kenny:

To some extent you are asking him to join a cult.

[Kenney]

You're right Mark. Thank you for your insight.

Sorry Tom. I respect you and and what you do to study the Universe

On with the debate.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Coastal walking is arguably the most important seaside recreational activity there is... Shoreline houses radically interfere with this resource.

This is true for many parts of the island. However it's not practical in some areas along the coast even without houses blocking acess.

Using HPP as an example, there is about 1/2 mile of accessible coastline between Paradise Drive & Maku'u Drive. It's used for walking (on the mostly closed off section of Beach Road, and fishing. To the north there are several "parks" off of the road out towards Kaloli Point, as well as the tip and entire north side of Kaloli Point. Most of that can accessed by foot. To the south of HPP is a long stretch of coastline starting at the end of Ala Heiau. So a good part of the HPP coastal area is already accessible to everyone, perhaps 50%.

From the end of Beach Road to Shipman Beach, there is an inland walking path a little over 2 miles long. There's also a lava shelf directly along on the coast which I've walked. It's uneven, slippery after a rain or when the waves crash, and has sections blocked by boulders. Not many people take that route. Even if it were possible to build a path as close as possible and parallel to the ocean, it would cost a fortune as the terrain is naturally challenging.

One example shows a fairly substantial ocean access in and adjoining a residential neighborhood that's already available for public use. The other is a potential future access site, which although possible because no buildings presently exist, would nevertheless seem unlikely.

Anyone else have other examples around Puna?

If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff

[TomK]

No need to apologize, Kenney, I found no offense in anything you wrote. It was an interesting conversation but I was trying to cut it short as it was really going O/T and away from Hawaii.

[Kenney]

Ok Tom. Mahalo.

[MarkD]

There was significant support for my views on shorelines issues, but the majority of Punatalk commentators on this subject appeared to think that things are fine as is. I generally do not push issues that lack strong support and was going to end my postings with the observation that some 15-20 years ago, a bunch of folks protested the lack of access to Shipman Beach.

Several even got themselves arrested to make the point. Public sentiment for better shoreline access was strong then.

In doing a search for the protest, I got sidetracked by two Punatalk threads from 2009 on shoreline issues, links below. The threads are highly informative.

There is a good explanation from Obie on the unique situation at south Kapoho Bay:

Another deal is the earthquake in 1975 and the subsidence it caused. All of the tidepools at Kapoho are on private property. There were houses on them at one time and most of these people are still paying property taxes.

Most of the tidepools were never public beach or land. Edited by - Obie on 06/22/2009 18:35:53

This sounds like correct info, though another commentator pointed out there are also public tide pools. So there are both. (On the other Hawaiian islands, to my knowledge, there is not a similar situation of earthquake subsidence resulting in privately owned tidepools. There periodically is, though, the issue of landowners building a rock wall across a shallow cove and then asserting the cove is not a cove but a private fishpond or lagoon. So scrutiny is always needed.)

In Kapoho Bay, we also have the general situation of landowners using rocks walls at the water’s edge and other measures to discourage pedestrian passage along the shoreline. This exists at the outer part of the bay. So Kapoho Bay has private tide pools, public tide pools and the situation I described.

http://punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8936&whichpage=1

http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8821

Also, someone also posted an important statute:

[§115-5] Transit area and public transit corridor defined. The right of transit ....However, in areas of cliffs or areas where the nature of the topography is such that there is no reasonably safe transit for the public along the shoreline below the private property lines, the counties by condemnation shall establish along the makai boundaries of the property lines public transit corridors which shall be not less than six feet wide. [L 1974, c 244, §5


Important error above. not “shall” establish but “may” establish. Critical difference. (maybe text was a draft)

Correct 115-5:

§115-5 Beach transit corridor defined. (a) The right of transit shall exist seaward of the shoreline and this area shall be defined as a beach transit corridor. For purposes of this section, "shoreline" shall have the same meaning as in section 205A-1.
However, in areas of cliffs or areas where the nature of the topography is such that there is no reasonably safe transit for the public along the shoreline below the private property lines, the counties by condemnation may establish along the makai boundaries of the property lines public transit corridors which shall be not less than six feet wide.
(b) Along beach transit corridors ... (says may require vegetation removal)

[MarkD]

Just read through 8 pages from 2009. Interesting how the tenor of exchange between those folks was more cordial than what we see today, not only here on Punaweb, but on other post sites. Interesting evolution.

[Obie]

MarkD

Have you ever been to the Waiopae tidepools or are you just relying on Punaweb and stuff you find on the interweb ?

The reason I ask is because of this statement :
"There is a good explanation from Obie on the unique situation at south Kapoho Bay:"

Kapoho Bay is surrounded by the Kapoho Beachlots subdivision.

The Waiopae tidepools are about 1/2 mile south of Kapoho bay.There was another subdivision planned for the area between Vacationland and the ocean.It is still owned by the Hara trust and is now submerged private property.