Obie
What's the scoops with the Fisherman warf access in Vacation land?
Ever since the last large storm Eselle, the access and local availability has changed dramatically.
Why the many big boulders to prevent local parking?
Why haven't the signs of Fisherman's Warf been replaced?
Why has the access trail into the Warf not been fixed?
Sadly, It has become very difficult to bring a young child or two into that area of fisherman's warf, Why?
I like to spear Taco and Uhu in that area of fisherman's Warf and it's alway's been one of the best ways to get out beyond the break, especially for night time diving for lobster. jmo
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Have you ever been to the Waiopae tidepools or are you just relying on Punaweb and stuff you find on the interweb ?
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Obie - I believe you are correct. Nothing seems to be posted as first hand knowledge.
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Hello Obie
I might have been to Waiopae tidepools. If I did, it was ages ago. I pulled your quote from 2009 because it seemed to give a good explanation of the property rights in part of Kapoho Bay.
My earlier comments mentioned shoreline access in Kapoho Bay. It seemed important follow up with the additional information (from you) regarding part of the bay shoreline.
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"Just read through 8 pages from 2009. Interesting how the tenor of exchange between those folks was more cordial than what we see today, not only here on Punaweb, but on other post sites. Interesting evolution."
With respect sir, I disagree. I find that though this thread discusses some possibly extremely polarizing issues the tone here is quite polite. Gods, love, global warming deniers, the rich and poor. All that and no swearing? Amazing.
As for belief in the unprovable, well I believe in God & love but can prove the existence of neither. If your choice is not to believe why should that cast any shadow on my belief?
There is law in Canada that 10 feet above the high tide cannot be private property, perhaps lobbying for the same would be of benefit? That being said, I once had some Scottish guy try to chase me off a beach saying he owned it. Didn't work out for him though....
Mahalo for an excellent & educational thread!
OBIE, Why no answers to my few questions regarding the Fisherman access area in your neighborhood?
How about the other back end trail to what use to be known as Harry Kim's (Waiopae pools)? A house was built next to the local known trail a few years back and now it says no ocean access, why?
Seems like Vacation land made lots of changes and only caters to the tourist now. jmo
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Hi Jim, fellow Newbie,
The tenor in this thread is quite good. My comment was in relation to some exchanges I had on other threads with several Punatalk old timers and was partly elaborated on a facetious humor section I wrote a few weeks back.
Not sure you want to get into all that.
(Seems Newbies are getting better treatment now, but we'll see the final outcome.)
Aloha, Mark
good questions, gypsy
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Hey Mark, yes things seem fine for newbies if we don't leap off the tracks. I prefer when people work towards acceptance. I'm sure to ask some foolish questions, it's nice when these are pointed out gently rather than with derision. I get you about other TMT threads though. Fascinating stuff right? The more I watch utube vids the more I wonder. I'm all for science, particularly science that involves a better understanding of space around us. I have high hopes for future generations. At the same time I'm big on First Nations rights. I get that that term might not be the best to describe the pre colonialist Hawaiian people but that's how the situation resonates with me. The way the TMT's were pushed though seems typical of the paternalistic attitude often taken towards First Nations, well... everywhere really. In Gypsy's last TMT thread things are unfortunately much hotter, which is too bad for folks like me because Gypsy's response to your question there seemed well answered but then HOTPE's response was rude which is a bit unusual for him and means that those of us who are new to it all don't get a clear rebuttal to think about. Ah well, and so it goes.
In the meantime, mahalo nui loa for calling me a "fellow newbie" as there is no way that I am as "local" as you are. Very kind of you to be so welcoming! Sorry you had some chaff before, nice of you not to pass it along.
Aloha, Jim
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p.s. A bit off topic but what about the snowboarding? There is a ton of video of people going snowboarding up there yet I have never seen that mentioned. I think the idea of a morning surf then up for some runs down the hill would be awesome but since the mountain is kapu and there seems to be a risk of contamination from vehicles that's starting to look unethical. Thoughts?
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A mountaintop ski resort may seem like a nice idea, but from what I have seen the last couple of winters traveling in trash and crap like broken sleds, saucers, garbage, etc. along the roads in snow country on the mainland spells major disaster to me.
Community begins with Aloha
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Hey Mark, yes things seem fine for newbies if we don't leap off the tracks.
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then HOTPE's response was rude
Please allow me to tell a Saturday morning Punaweb parable.
Once upon a time, there was a man and his family, and they lived in a comfortable home surrounded by a pleasant shady yard in Leilani Estates. They were happy and content and through long term careful planning had even managed to purchase several properties around the home in which they lived. They had lived in Leilani Estates quite a long time, although many of their neighbors had lived there longer.
An elderly relative fell ill, and the family decided they could build a state of the art new home for her with easy wheelchair access and "help" buttons installed around the home in case of emergency.
When the plans for the new home were made known, some of the neighbors, who never liked the "new" couple because 20 years ago the couple put a sign in their front yard for a political candidate the neighbors didn't care for, those neighbors decided enough is enough, we've got to stop this right here and now.
One claimed his uncle used to hunt pig and provide food for his family from the couple's properties. Another said her grandmother collected firewood there. Yet another long time resident started to hold campfires on full moon nights, to sing songs and tell stories. The long time resident held the gatherings on her property, but placed the campfire a few feet onto one of the "new" couple's lots.
Another person found out about the additional home that's planned, and took to social media to discuss the neighbors objections, which included accusations such as:
* The "new" couple will destroy the neighborhood with one more house!
* The lot they intend to build on was in use by other neighbors long before the "new" couple ever arrived, and the long time neighbors have more rights, rights that supersede deeds and legal boundaries.
* One neighbor regularly holds her religious practice on the lot in question.
* They "new" couple own a laser in their home with which they watch DVDs, but it could be re-purposed to destroy small cities.
* Someone in the "new" couple's family had once been in the army, so they may use their land for military purposes.
Things go from bad to worse, and even the "new" couple's car, which at one time had engine trouble that had since been fixed is drawn into the fray:
* Their car emits clouds of toxic fumes wherever they drive.
* These fumes have caused breathing problems for many of the neighbors.
* They claim they rebuilt the engine, but what if the new engine creates the same trouble in the future?
Most if not all of these claims were easily debunked, but one or two people on Punaweb continuously choose to repeat them. Many on Punaweb point out how utterly ridiculous the claims were, even with an occasional rude but funny video.
Some new folks come along, and after reading a few posts from over the last few years, decide a mediation is necessary. They attempt to show how reasonable the alternate reality commentators can be by lobbing a few softball questions their way, such as, "do you think anything should be built on the properties in question? To which he receives a simple and seemingly reasonable reply, "No."
The moral of the story, and another reasonable question might be, couldn't the people who repeatedly make unsubstantiated or outright false statements be considered rude every time they post those types of comments?
Now let's return to the TMT, Hawaiians, Mauna Kea, the shoreline, even revenge, and ask, what is the real question? Is it as simple as "do you think there should be a telescope on Mauna Kea?" Does that provide us with an answer?
Not really. If the telescopes are offensive to the Hawaiian people as claimed* wouldn't the real question be, "what would be different if there were no telescopes?" Yes some people would drive up Mauna Kea to practice a byo potluck religion that had never been practiced on the summit in the past, and ahu would be built, etc. But what would really change for the Hawaiian people on a day to day basis? If the reply is that this would be a first step, that what's to follow would provide the real change, then what are the steps that will follow?
It's easy to scatter jmo's across the width and breadth and height of this island. But never having to explain how those jmo's would actually change anything, or offer a plan for change, that's another matter entirely. And after awhile it can go on a person's nerves, which as geochem pointed out, is the prerogative and real intent of "this drama queen troll."
So why do I fall for it? Repeat something enough times and there are people who will think it's true. Then sometimes we get what happened last November. And other times we don't get an asset on our island as valuable as the TMT.
*(in gypsy's response, they are offensive, but not if they were Hawaiian telescopes)
If I know what I shall find, I do not want to find it. Uncertainty is the salt of life. - biochemist Erwin Chargaff
“We do this thing not because it is easy, but because we thought it would be easy.”
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