Propane delivery

[A friend indeed]

1. .  Where can I buy a propane refrigerator/freezer? 2. Which propane company will deliver and set a 350+ gal propane tank in Seaview Estates?   Mahalo

[terracore]

The only place I've seen them sell the fridge since the place in Pahoa closed is Hilo Propane.

Most off gridders use solar. The freezer only needs to run during the day when the sun is out so no significant batteries are required. Use a gizmo like I'll paste below and use it to turn a manual defrost freezer into a refrigerator. You can refrigerate on about 10% the power of a regular "frostless" refrigerator that consumes more electricity remaining "frostless" than on actual refrigeration. I used a similar one to turn a chest freezer into a fridge and it only used about 89 watts (when it was running, it doesn't run all the time), so a small battery bank will keep it running overnight.

https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Brew-Controlador-digital-A421-Johnson/dp/B01IWIZJHA/ref=as_li_ss_tl?crid=2BZJ75HOUVOUD&dchild=1&keywords=convert+freezer+to+refrigerator&qid=1597875348&sprefix=convert+freezer+to+re,aps,286&sr=8-6&linkCode=ll1&tag=pw016-20&linkId=583bf1cdd645db93d061c8599c3ba24a&language=en_US

[kalakoa]

I penciled out these three options when I moved here, costs were roughly the same.

1. Propane fridge + tanks + plumbing.
2. DC-powered "solar" fridge + panel(s).
3. Conventional fridge + tiny off-grid system (2 panels, 6 golf-cart batteries, inverter).

Propane is a better bet if the sun never comes out (eg, Glenwood or similar).

DC fridge is expensive, but the system is very very simple (most are designed to take a panel directly, no batteries). I think the Kurtistown solar shop has them.

Tiny system means it's cheap to replace the fridge as needed (rust, compressor failure) and you get some electricity for other things.

Propane is expensive to begin with, delivery surcharge isn't cheap, and of course the tank/plumbing would have to be permitted/inspected/certified before the gas company will even show up.

[A friend indeed]

"3. Conventional fridge + tiny off-grid system (2 panels, 6 golf-cart batteries, inverter)."
Hmmmm......maybe I can get by with an ice chest for a few days? I am looking to install at least a 12,000+ watt solar system...I was thinking the propane route was temp until solar fully installed, then reselling the propane refrig. Got more thinking to do. Appreciate the comments. keep them coming Mahalo

[randomq]

I'd buy a small system (3 panels and 6-8 golf cart batteries, etc) and an efficient regular fridge for the temporary system, then either keep it as a shed/greenhouse/backup system or sell it when done with it.

The advantage of buying cheap components and upgrading is you have spares in case anything breaks later. Big issue if you live off grid and on an island with slow shipping!

[terracore]

Why would you need a 12,000 watt solar system? I have a 1,200 watt (ish) and don't use all of it's power. Granted that I have grid available but my house probably uses about 400 watts on "idle", about half of that is the kitchen frostless refrigerator. I'm not trying to sound judgmental just wondering why anybody would want to invest in that much potential power unless they were selling most of it to the utility company or mining bitcoin. Refrigeration and freezing can be extremely cheap on solar. It's the cooking and clothes drying that has a cost benefit from using propane. We line dry 99% of our clothes (as has been the custom for humans for thousands of years). I think our chest freezer was about $200 and the gizmo we bought to turn it into a fridge was $16 on sale. It can run on two 100 watt solar panels, a single 8-year old Kirkland 12v marine battery, and a sub-$100 inverter.

I'm not saying that this is a "recommended system" or that it has longevity, but it works. It does require several hours of sun per day to be effective. Absent that, one would have to supplement with grid or generator, or larger battery bank. I think the worst investment in solar power is in storing it, which is why I engineered my system to be largely free from energy storage, but also to be easily scaled differently if the equation or technology changes. Take the "free" energy while it's available when the sun is out. Use the cheap (grid) power when it's not. Grid-tie systems only benefit the grid owners. It's basically just pre-paying for a bunch of electricity and pray that they don't change the rules (like grid tie fees) in the future. Then just as you are reaching the break-even point in your initial investment, all of the equipment is at the end of it's lifespan.

[kalakoa]

Why would you need a 12,000 watt solar system?

Same reason you "need" a 350-gallon propane tank... but a 12KW system would easily run an all-electric kitchen and electric dryer, maybe charge a Tesla...

maybe I can get by with an ice chest for a few days?

Around here, a "few days" quickly becomes a "few months" or even a few years, so plan accordingly.

[Obie]

Over in the building forum you are talking about a 600 sq ft building.Why on earth would you need a 350 gallon propane tanks and then a 12000 watt solar system. Where are you going to mount 50 panels ?

[randomq]

Around here, a "few days" quickly becomes a "few months" or even a few years, so plan accordingly.

Don't reveal too many secrets to the initiates. The island will show them when they are ready.

[A friend indeed]

You have all made some very good points....Propane is if I decide upon a smaller solar project, but likely still needed for a gas clothes dryer, on demand hot water (If I can get such without being required to have solar water heater), kitchen stove and oven, perhaps a BBQ.  While I am not a "prepper", but given the possibility of disruptions to supply because of Hurricanes, even Lava flows, it does not hurt to have a large supply.   The solar array of 12,000 watts (and about 9 to 12  300 watt panels) would be for a total of 1,000 square feet, with the usual lighting, fans, kitchen needs, perhaps a small air conditioning unit,  a couple of tvs, computers, printers.  it all adds up.  I used a simple tool that calculates the power needs of my proposed existence. I have no intent to sell back to the grid.  If my 12,000 if off the chart, I will do some more research. I really appreciate that you all are adding comments, it checks my nativity!  I have lived off the grid before, 30+ years ago, but everything has changed, and I have paid no attention in those 30 years!