Don't worry, there's a vaccine!

[terracore]

I'm not suggesting that anybody should avoid the vaccine. I just want to be fully informed before *I* take the vaccine. I got my flu shot this year despite it's poor track record of efficacy, but it's generally safe. They halted the covid vaccine at an Illinois hospital yesterday after 4 workers needed treatment. I've never heard of that happening with the flu vaccine.

Here's a CDC document that shows almost 3% of covid vaccine recipients reported "unable to perform daily activities, unable to work, required care from a doctor or health care professional" after receiving the vaccine. That seems a little high to me.

https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents...ovid-clark

I'm sure I'll get a covid vaccine myself eventually. I just don't want to be first in line to receive an experimental type of vaccine using technology that has never been tried before. I couldn't even find evidence of a long term study of mRNA vaccines being attempted in animals.

Recent history: "Rush To Produce, Sell Vaccine Put Kids In Philippines At Risk"

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsod...ercussions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy

The above was a vaccine that took over 20 years to develop (not sure how that jives with the title "Rush to Develop") and over a year and a half of kids dying before the manufacturer admitted there was a problem with it. A year and half ago the word covid didn't exist and mRNA vaccines were considered to be 20 years away.

[kalakoa]

I see a larger issue: the rush to "go back to normal". We will learn nothing from this pandemic, leaving us unprepared for the next one.

[eightfingers2.0]

I guarantee you will die after you get the vaccine.*






* Don’t know when though.

[My 2 cents]

I'm not suggesting that anybody should avoid the vaccine.

Me either. In fact I would encourage everyone to get their jab as soon as possible. Then when it becomes my turn I will have plenty of data with which to base my decision.

[Durian Fiend]

Antibody dependent enhancement is the term for what happened with the Dengue fever
vaccine. It made infections MORE severe rather than less. Worst case scenario!
Well, if that is to happen with coronavirus, and research at this time suggests highly unlikely,
then poor old folks and front line health care workers dropping off with serious disease will
soon follow.
This is an interesting comparison of flu and Covid that recently came to my attention.




“For those who many months later insist on comparing covid to the flu here is a new Lancet study. It focused on hospitalized patients but still captures key differences between the diseases. The conclusion: "The presentation of patients with COVID-19 and seasonal influenza requiring hospitalisation differs considerably".

Disease process: "Patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 more frequently developed acute respiratory failure, pulmonary embolism, septic shock, or haemorrhagic stroke than patients with influenza, but less frequently developed myocardial infarction or atrial fibrillation."

Patient characteristics: "Patients with COVID-19 were more frequently obese or overweight, and more frequently had diabetes, hypertension, and dyslipidaemia than patients with influenza, whereas those with influenza more frequently had heart failure, chronic respiratory disease, cirrhosis, and deficiency anaemia."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...527-0/fulltext

This study while new examined patients hospitalized last spring. In the intervening months, there only appears to be increasing evidence that covid can be much more unpredictable in younger patients than influenzas.

The cohort for potentially severe risk of covid disease is broader than that for influenza. We've seen that in practice but again note the patient characteristics in the Lancet study.

While those who die from covid continue to be elderly, the median age of those who become ill and hospitalized is younger. With that increasingly evident during the summer and fall as covid moved from the nursing homes into the general population. Needless to say that comes with all sorts of economic consequences. Like what we've seen for the last several months.“

[terracore]

I'm not suggesting that anybody should avoid the vaccine.

Me either.  In fact I would encourage everyone to get their jab as soon as possible.  Then when it becomes my turn I will have plenty of data with which to base my decision.

It sounds like we'll be running into each other (6 feet apart, of course) in the line.

"if that is to happen with coronavirus, and research at this time suggests highly unlikely" [different author see above]

With all due respect, there is no research into the long-term effects of the coronavirus vaccine. They would have to start the study 10 years before the virus was identified to have 'preliminary' data. The Dengue vaccine data came out 20 years after development started and almost 2 years after the "research" phase ended. That's 22 years. My daughter was an infant then. Ironically, she is a health care worker now and I get some of the covid vaccine information from her.

[VancouverIslander]

After reading the discussion I have a few thoughts to share.

Firstly, on the topic of whether or not the vaccine reduces transmission, I think the answer is 'quite likely', however, the study would have difficulties in differentiating this particular outcome. According the best current information, asymptomatic transmission is not as effective:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3

Asymptomatic viral loads do not stay high for long, making transmission less likely.

As to vagal responses, these happen all of the time. I had one when getting an eye scan (the inject a dye into your blood for this). It happens at blood donor clinics every day. Some of the allergic reactions are a bit of a concern, but so far most of them seem to be easily treated. Definitely a risk I'm willing to take given the alternatives.

[My 2 cents]

My mention of vagal responses as a side effect was merely an attempt at levity.  A failed attempt, apparently.  It was certainly not intended to be taken seriously as a reason to avoid the jab.

Sensationalism of every single adverse reaction here in the early going is to be expected.  It won't mean much unless/until patterns start to emerge.  But these unknowns are definitely good reasons to be hesitant.  Add in the fast-tracking of a new technology, the billions of dollars at stake, and the overt resistance to any alternatives....I can understand why some people are not ready to roll up their sleeve quite yet.

VancouverIslander, as to whether the vaccine reduces transmission, I'm not sure how you get "quite likely" from the article you presented:

Although there is a lower risk of transmission from asymptomatic people, they might still present a significant public-health risk because they are more likely to be out in the community than isolated at home.

That's the whole key to asymptomatic transmission.  "I'm not sick, I don't have it, you don't have to worry about getting it from me".  

Perhaps staying home when you are sick is one of the positives that will come of all this.

[terracore]

Vaccine makers believe it will work against the new mutant strain, or if it doesn't they can have new vaccine ready in 6 weeks: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...nd=premium

"Drugmakers who designed the first Covid-19 vaccine to gain clearance from Western regulators say they could reset the shot to counter a new strain within just six weeks, if needed.

BioNTech SE Chief Executive Officer Ugur Sahin said he’s confident that the inoculation his company developed with Pfizer Inc. will work just fine against the fast-spreading coronavirus variant that’s raising alarms in the U.K. and beyond. If the current shot fails to be adequately protective, though, the company could tweak it by updating small bits of genetic information called messenger RNA that their vaccine uses."

"The new Covid-19 strain that emerged in the U.K. is possibly already in the U.S., Germany, France and Switzerland, officials in those countries said. Ireland imposed new restrictions to stem an “extraordinary growth” in cases, and said the nation should act on the assumption that the new variant has arrived." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...nd=premium

[VancouverIslander]

My mention of vagal responses as a side effect was merely an attempt at levity.  A failed attempt, apparently.  It was certainly not intended to be taken seriously as a reason to avoid the jab.

Perhaps staying home when you are sick is one of the positives that will come of all this.

I did hear a bit of a whooshing noise as I read that part.

I'm totally with you on the staying home when you are sick thing. I retired with a year and a half of sick days saved up. Never did me one bit of good.