Vaccine Rollout - State starts out with an 'F' but much improved, Big Island gets B+

[terracore]

Please post a link to the animal trials for the COVID vaccines. Not being a jerk, I really want to read them.

[Durian Fiend]

Please post a link to the animal trials for the COVID vaccines.  Not being a jerk, I really want to read them.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-data-preclinical-studies-mrna

[terracore]

For some reason my brain thought you meant long term animal studies. That is "preliminary preclinical data" showing efficacy, we know the efficacy from the human trials. The issue with the failed SARS vaccines was the long-term safety shown in the animal studies.

[ChunksterK]

The state's "essential workers" list seems to get longer every day, and there doesn't seem to be any clear prioritization of who will get the vaccine. Here's a story from HNN:

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/02/02...-get-them/

The always ambitious Josh Green seems to think anybody who spends a lot of time near others at work should get vaccinated early. He may have a point, but this being Hawaii, there will be abuses. Meanwhile, my 70 year old neighbor with two underlying medical conditions can't get her shot. Oh, and Hawaii has moved up from 47th to 40th place in terms of getting the vaccine allotted into arms:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/pu...tered.html

[Durian Fiend]

For some reason my brain thought you meant long term animal studies.    That is "preliminary preclinical data" showing efficacy, we know the efficacy from the human trials.  The issue with the failed SARS vaccines was the long-term safety shown in the animal studies.

Pre Clinical also evaluates safety in animals.   Has the time frame been shortened from the typical vaccine schedule?  For sure. What issue are you referring to with previous vaccines?

How long a time frame would you be comfortable with?  I think it's been about 6 months now for Phase 3 human studies.
For someone living in Hawaii who doesn't travel much, waiting awhile for a vaccine doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

[terracore]

"How long a time frame would you be comfortable with? "

I don't know. They tested Denguevaxia for 10 years and only admitted it was potentially deadly two years after they started selling it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy And that was WITHOUT liability protection gifted to the drug companies in the Cares act.

There is probably some good data in the mRNA SARS vaccines about how long after the vaccine it took for the animals to suffer the ill effects. I might try to dig it up.

I understand that the J&J vaccine could get its emergency use authorization next week.

In other news, Longs in Hilo will start administering the gene jab: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/02/02...ns-hawaii/

[Durian Fiend]

"How long a time frame would you be comfortable with? "

I don't know.  They tested Denguevaxia for 10 years and only admitted it was potentially deadly two years after they started selling it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengvaxia_controversy  And that was WITHOUT liability protection gifted to the drug companies in the Cares act.

There is probably some good data in the mRNA SARS vaccines about how long after the vaccine it took for the animals to suffer the ill effects.  I might try to dig it up.

I understand that the J&J vaccine could get its emergency use authorization next week.

In other news, Longs in Hilo will start administering the gene jab:  https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/02/02...ns-hawaii/

It's an mRNA vaccine, not DNA.  I hope you're not one of those folks who thinks the vaccine will alter our DNA, LOL. 

Do you recall what ill effects the animals suffered? 

The Dengue vaccine was recalled fairly quickly after determining that it could cause enhanced disease, but by that time thousands of people had already been inoculated.  Pretty sure it wasn't 10 years.

[terracore]

"Do you recall what ill effects the animals suffered? "

More research indicates I need to backpedal a previous statement that it was "mRNA" vaccines that were contraindicated for SARS (and MERS). All the vaccine candidates had bad outcomes. In some studies the animals had liver damage, in others heart damage. The more common outcome was antibody dependent enhancement (the same issue the Dengue vaccine has). The animals developed a strong antibody response to the vaccine but after that faded, if they were re-exposed they would get a hemorrhagic form of the disease instead of the milder version. (Reality check: there is no scientific basis to suggest that would happen with the vaccines being used now).

Regarding animal trials, from what I read rodents can't get COVID so they can't be used for testing the vaccines until a COVID susceptible rodent can be bred. So they used monkeys instead, the animal trials started at about the same time the human trials did. Since most lab rodents only live a year or two they can give researchers a window into how a vaccine effects an aging animal in a short period of time.

"The Dengue vaccine was recalled fairly quickly after determining that it could cause enhanced disease, but by that time thousands of people had already been inoculated. Pretty sure it wasn't 10 years."

It took 10 years to develop the vaccine and prove it was 'safe and effective' to get it to market, and then an additional 2 years to learn it was neither unless the person already had Dengue.

Edited to add: I'm just posting information and since I'm just a layman it should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm constantly evaluating all the information to decide if and when I get a vaccine. I'm sure I will eventually. I'm at low risk of complications from COVID so I don't need to be first in line for an experimental injection. Everybody's situation is different.

[terracore]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/226...ronavirus/

Sigh.... Two variants have merged into heavily mutated coronavirus

[Durian Fiend]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/226...ronavirus/

Sigh.... Two variants have merged into heavily mutated coronavirus

mRNA vaccines seem up to the task.  https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/health/pfizer-vaccine-south-africa-variant/index.html

"..Separately, a team at the National Institutes of Health and Moderna published a letter in the same journal outlining findings from an experiment they reported last month. They also reported a reduction in the antibody response to viruses genetically engineered to look like the B.1.351 variant -- but not enough of a reduction to make the vaccine work any less effectively.

"Despite this reduction, neutralizing titer levels with (the variant discovered in South Africa) remain above levels that are expected to be protective," the company said in a statement.

They found no reduction in efficacy against a variant first seen in the UK and known as B.1.1.7."