Vaccinated People Spread The Delta Variant, CDC Says

[AaronM]

Good thing there aren't 4 Million people on this island.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Why the severely slanted playing field?
I don't believe
I seriously doubt that.

If I understand Justin's numbers correctly he's laying out a bell curve with the highest and lowest R0 values, and what causes them.  Is there a vast gray area in between?  Yes.  Do unvaccinated people wear masks?  Sure.  I think we all know which factors increase the spread of COVID, or which factors reduce it.

Justin's numbers aren't a religion that depend on your beliefs, the numbers are true or false without any belief required. 
For anyone who doesn't think Justin's numbers are correct why not present statistics you consider more accurate rather than just say you doubt his assertion?

The PunaWeb Challenge:
Let's spend some time on this topic, using actual numbers.  Rather than change the subject or move the goal posts (again), because real findings might only bear out Justin's assertion.

[randomq]

Good thing there aren't 4 Million people on this island.

10 million tourists visited Hawaii in 2019. Finally, we can reduce tourists and export something!

[Justin]

If people want to ignore the R0 of 6.0 in my post (for whatever reason), it's not material to the overall point - the overall point is whether the population being analyzed has an R0 of more or less than 1.0, that there are several factors that can lead to lowering the value to below 1.0, and that once the overwhelming majority of people are vaccinated, the virus will rapidly decline to zero.  

This isn't purely theoretical, by the way.  As a real-world example of what I'm talking about, Denmark got its vaccination rate above 80%, got its number of cases close to zero, and over the weekend, it dropped all of its COVID restrictions.  No masks, no showing vaccination cards, no limits on capacity at restaurants or concerts or whatever.  In other words, back to pre-2020.  Here's a story for those who are interested: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/103613624...strictions

And here's a graph of vaccination rates over time, with a number of countries including the US.  As you can see, the US has started to lag way behind, and it's the main reason why countries such as Denmark are getting back to normal life and our situation is actually getting worse instead of better.

[Punaperson]

AaronM: "Good thing there aren't 4 Million people on this island."

Sometimes it only takes one person for the law of unintended consequences to become real.

My good friend, a long time Puna resident, was told by his doctor this morning that his operation for stage 4 cancer has been delayed for a second time because again, there are no ICU beds available on Oahu for his post-surgical care. The beds and staff are being utilized by sick, non-vaccinated covid people.

If all those who disregarded the science behind the covid vaccines would not take up the limited resources of our hospitals and stay home with their 'research', it would not be so infuriating and rage inducing.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Denmark... getting back to normal life and our situation is actually getting worse instead of better.

American style FREEDOM!!!
Now with even more restrictions!
At no extra charge!  (If you don’t include the deaths, medical expenses, economic impact, & wasted time)

[TomK]

What does a rational person do? At this point, it is absolutely clear that vaccinated people are unlikely to die or be hospitalized cf. unvaccinated people and much less likely to pass on Covid. It's not even close yet some still argue against a vaccine and the more extreme views are to take untested medication. It's like arguing with sovereign citizens, flat earthers, and first amendment auditors. The stupid people are trying to take over thanks to the internet and without one iota of thought about what their actions mean to others.

[Or1on]

I have been reading over this thread for awhile and decided to finally comment:

You simply cannot force someone to inject something into their body that they don't want to.  Or eat a pill they don't want to.  Or say something they don't want to.  Or worship a deity they don't want to.  

I got the vaccine. It was my choice.  No matter how much some of you berate those that choose not to get it, that doesn't make your point of view correct.  Yes, the world we live in is different now.  Some would even say its f#*#-ed.  People are losing loved ones.  Sadness and sorrow runs deep.  Still you cannot force people to get vaccinated.  Should our government go fully "big-brother" and try to make it a mandate to be vaccinated, it would get really ugly.  Much worse than it is now with all the people that would rise up in resistance.

[kander]

What does a rational person do? At this point, it is absolutely clear that vaccinated people are unlikely to die or be hospitalized cf. unvaccinated people and much less likely to pass on Covid. It's not even close yet some still argue against a vaccine and the more extreme views are to take untested medication. It's like arguing with sovereign citizens, flat earthers, and first amendment auditors. The stupid people are trying to take over thanks to the internet and without one iota of thought about what their actions mean to others.

And a diametrically opposing view to this would be why would any smart and intelligent person be advocating for the (still under emergency use authorization) phase II or III clinical trial mRNA injection. An injection unlike any other injection given before. With an efficacy rate is questionable to say the least. Where we are now facing nursing shortages because they will quit before they are forced to take it. Where the national guard was called in drive school buses and Chicago is looking to see if lyft has any drivers after a bunch of them quit over the vaccine mandates. This is just a couple of examples of whats going on. I know personally a few postal carriers who will not take the injection. Mil  personnel, contractors the list goes on and including thousands of doctors who will never take it. And the people that advise Joe, know fully well that many people will quit and there will be severe disruptions to society because of it.

Your posts seem to think that anti vaxxers are the reasoning for this illogical behavior. Nurses and doctors know that vaccines work. Most reasonable people know that vaccines work. Im old enough to bear a small pox inoculation scar, and so far I have never caught small pox.

Now, i wont take it because the people I talk to and ask, (because from the horses mouth right?) Nurses, Doctors have seen upticks in brain bleeds, melanomas, spontaneous abortions, heart attacks, kidney failures, early signs of creutzfeld jacobs manifesting in people in their 20's, that coincide with them haven taken the vaccine in the last 6 months. These are just the people I know and not all in the same hospital. Im NOT talking about all the other people more vocal about it, and that are immediately attacked for stepping forward about saying "hey, there seems to be a problem here". These medical professionals are low key for fear of reprisals if they were to speak out. Think about that for a minute.

Its more than a FB meme that drives a lot of people to not only be just indecisive about it but a solid hell no to the injection. This horse is beat clear to death. A man hears what they want to hear and disregards the rest.

[Durian Fiend]

I have been reading over this thread for awhile and decided to finally comment:

You simply cannot force someone to inject something into their body that they don't want to.  Or eat a pill they don't want to.  Or say something they don't want to.  Or worship a deity they don't want to.  

I got the vaccine. It was my choice.  No matter how much some of you berate those that choose not to get it, that doesn't make your point of view correct.  Yes, the world we live in is different now.  Some would even say its f#*#-ed.  People are losing loved ones.  Sadness and sorrow runs deep.  Still you cannot force people to get vaccinated.  Should our government go fully "big-brother" and try to make it a mandate to be vaccinated, it would get really ugly.  Much worse than it is now with all the people that would rise up in resistance.

I'm sympathetic to the idea of not mandating vaccines.  Is a full on blanket vaccine mandate nationwide under consideration?  Nope, it will never happen.

 They could be mandated as a condition of employment, however, or for kids to attend school.  For example, all students, faculty and other employees at Harvard are required to be vaccinated. 

Health (and death) care workers are not allowed to opt out of treating Covid patients.  Actually in many places, they are denying services to other patients in order to deal with the more immediate, acute needs of Covid.  We've heard many stories nationwide of state health officials expressing great concern that their hospitals were in danger of collapse from these demands. 

Speaking of death care, have you guys seen this one?  It's quite the story from a Texas embalmer.  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-cov...c9c012139c