Apply to shoot sheep off of your lana'i

[Punatang]

I have not seen any sheep in my back 40.  Yet...

https://bigislandnow.com/2024/02/24/appl...-in-march/

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

four hunts: an archery hunt, a youth hunt, a muzzleloader hunt, and a general rifle hunt.

What? No samurai sword hunt?

[Punatang]

four hunts: an archery hunt, a youth hunt, a muzzleloader hunt, and a general rifle hunt.

What? No samurai sword hunt?

Right?  Why not make it fair and have real, hand to horn combat?

[terracore]

Apparently Lanai doesn't have the loose dog problem Puna does.

[Punatang]

Apparently Lanai doesn't have the loose dog problem Puna does.

Maybe they get mistaken for ungulates.

[Punatang]

Apparently Lanai doesn't have the loose dog problem Puna does.

Have you lost some of your sheep to stray dogs?

[terracore]

Apparently Lanai doesn't have the loose dog problem Puna does.

Have you lost some of your sheep to stray dogs?

Over a dozen.  Some of our neighbors have fared worse. I don't think "stray" is entirely appropriate. The dogs look like they are well kept, they have owners.

[Punatang]

You did say "loose" and not "stray" and I appreciate the distinction you have highlighted.

That is very, very difficult to accept.  How frustrated you and your neighbors must be.  And rightfully so.  How robust of a defense of livestock, against predators, is permitted in Hawaii, Hawaii County, etc.?

[terracore]

You did say "loose" and not "stray" and I appreciate the distinction you have highlighted.

That is very, very difficult to accept.  How frustrated you and your neighbors must be.  And rightfully so.  How robust of a defense of livestock, against predators, is permitted in Hawaii, Hawaii County, etc.?

Section 4-4-31.(b) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary which may be found elsewhere in this chapter, where livestock have been killed, maimed or injured by any dangerous, fierce or vicious stray dog, the owner of such livestock or the owner’s agent, after being deputized as a special officer in accordance with the provisions of section 4-2-4, may take any action necessary to protect the owner’s livestock from such dangerous, fierce, or vicious dog, including, without limitation, slaying or otherwise disposing of the same. https://www.hawaiicounty.gov/home/showpu...4775600000

So how robust?  According to that, unless one is "deputized as a special officer", one is pretty much limited to trapping the dog and calling animal control.  (4-2-4 appears to be referring to being designated an animal control officer, so there is no clear path for a farmer to legally protect their flock- though if they felt like THEIR safety was threatened by the dog, they may have a legal argument they shot in self defense of their own life).

This is where the distinction of loose versus stray comes into play.  Loose dogs with owners typically aren't hungry enough to go into a trap. We've been trying to catch the dogs for 12 years and they've never gone near the trap.

We know people who have called police while dogs were chasing and killing their livestock.  They responded relatively quickly with the intent to locate and kill the dogs, but the dogs have always been gone before police arrive. They've also said "off the record" that nobody is going to miss said dogs if the farmer shot them. Not exactly permission, but pretty much that's how Hawaii operates.

When it comes to shooting dogs on their property, the farmer's credo is "The three Sh's"

Shoot
Shovel
and Shhhhh

The long-term solution is to replace livestock fencing with dog-proof fencing.  We're about $10k into it.  Just for supplies, doing the labor myself.  That's only about 1/3 of our land.  I don't think we'll ever get the entire property dog-proofed, but maybe we can get about 2/3 before I'm too old to continue or we give up.

Other than working on the fencing about the only other thing one can do is use livestock guardian animals, and to that end we have two donkeys.  I don't know how effective they've been since dogs have killed sheep while in with the donkeys, but it's possible the carnage could have been worse.  We do know of several instances where our friends have had ALL their sheep either killed or mortally wounded.

[Punatang]

Thanks for taking time to explain all of that. If the dogs forced you to have those donkeys to enjoy then maybe, just somehow, it all works out in the end.

I have been in a similar situation long ago and far far away and the 3Ss definitely prevailed. Every situation is unique though.

Hopefully you get some releif with your "all of the above" approach.