09-21-2016, 07:34 AM
Sorry but yes there IS an A rd !! The old historic Volcano Trail Runs alongside the corner home there on the Mauka side of A rd and continues up through to volcano. I actually participated in the clearing of the trail over 25 years ago and know exactly where it runs. A Rd. also continues towards Kurtistown but has actually simply grown over but it is there. Even IF A rd was claimed to be a part of the trail it can NEVER be built upon because it is a Federally designated Protected Historic Trail just like the Appalachian Trail and can not be paved over!! As for going to the "Fake Community Association" meeting they do let you go but you are not allowed to speak. Heck they had a woman who just moved to the mainland that was actually doing the books for them for almost 4 years that never in her life owned a piece of property here.
And they can claim that the date has passed to complain but by law you can not commit a crime or theft and just wait a long time and say o well we win !!! They do NOT own our roads because they would need to have contact with every single property owner which is virtually impossible since a lot of these lots were purchased from the New York Times back in the 50s and the people that own them are simply not interested in becoming involved hence all three time the City & County & the "ASSOCIATION !!" went to court the judges ruled against them. We own 77 miles of roads in this subdivision not the C&C. 77 miles of roadway at a width of 30 feet (30 ft less than legally allowed for a C&C rd, plus an extra 5 ft for easements on each side). This works out to be many thousands of acres. And at fair market value to purchase the roadways under Eminent Domain laws would cost the County more than Highway 11 cost to build. Our roadways are actually considered One Lane and our signage (still in place I have photos as of yesterday) says so by telling residents that "outgoing traffic has the right of way.). The biggest mistake we all (including me)make is referring to these "driveway access" paths as roads because they never were designed to be roads since the acres inception. three times (most recently that I attended) in 1985 and 1993 a judge ruled that all these driveways were privately owned and HACA was an illegal entity with no power to collect money or for the C&C to turn into thoroughfare's without proper redress to eminent domain. The sign still exists on 9 road as of Sept. 19th 2016, while the exact other sign on A Rd & Kuauli was removed sometime during the the 1st week of Sept 2016. With signs we do not need to close our roads under the rules of "Prescriptive Easement". But with the signs removed you are correct without a yearly day closure or checkpoint set up we may be in a legal "quagmire" as to whether they can claim eminent domain. So we NEED to do this once a year beginning as soon as the remaining sign is stolen on 9 Rd.
a good example of our situation can be seen at this link-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-dri...e13631313/
"Any route that the government doesn’t own, but that people need to use has in it the seeds of social destruction. Most private road disputes do not end in gunfire (a simple knife fight will do), but the truth is that there are few driving pitfalls that can trigger more ill will than the existence of a private road. The urban equivalent is the shared driveway or as they call it in the UFC the “Octagon.” Why did Oedipus kill his father? They had an argument about right-of-way on a private road. Few fans know it, but novelist Cormac McCarthy’s gruesome tale of post-apocalyptic cannibalism, The Road, was originally called The Private Road, but the title was deemed too disturbing."
Another example of private ownership is as follows-
http://www.codepublishing.com/WA/LaCente...r1210.html
"Driving on a road marked Private as you described would be trespass, which is a civil offence. Therefore you cannot be arrested for being there. The owners can ask you to leave, and you should do so promptly. They can call the police if they desire but they cannot restrain you while they wait.
Only Aggravated Trespass is a criminal offence....". This is the way ALL other Emergency Routes are supervised by the County by putting up gates that only property owners get an access key to enter. THIS is the defense we need to proceed with. We NEED gates not police in our yards !!! Police are actually only allowed to drive these roads if they are on an actual documented 911 call or during a monumental act of nature to expedite the saving of lives. These laws are NOT designed for the theft of roadways just for convenience when adjacent lands are available that surround the subdivision in question.
I will happily set up a table once a year at one of the entrances to our subdivision but as you see I have no right to hold a person only to tell them not to enter, after they ignore that then we can take plate numbers and call the police under the "Aggravated Trespass..." rules. But it takes the police longer to respond than it does to blow it through the subdivision so we will need someone at the other exit/entrance stopping people at the same time I am in the front. Anyone who thinks allowing the C&C to take over our roads is simply a whacko and a person who is building here as an investment not to live here!! Because it is quite obvious that 8 Rd has become the newest way to avoid all the drunk/drug driving and seatbelt setups by the Police, and to spock out homes to rip off. I personally know of 3 people who have been armed and suffered home invasions since 8Rd has become the best known secret for all the crack & batu freaks. Heck almost every road now has drug houses full of squatters now !!!
I personally do NOT want to live in an area with crime similar to Detroit or Chicago!!! Do you???
The C&C as the authority wanting to open our roads to the public must first consider all the facts and balance the benefit received by the limited number of people who use the road against the burden imposed on the owner of the land over which the proposed road will cross.
They can not prove this since they own land around us and there could be shorter routes developed.
This all boils down to "EMERGENCY ROAD..." that I can deal with IF they install gates and issue keys to residents just as they do for every other similar route. But if they want to OWN the road then BUY IT, pay us each our share, and block access to every single access to our homes with gates and keys.
Sorry but I am passionate about this issue and getting older I am now more susceptible to home invasions which are horrific and not even reported on the news !!!
And they can claim that the date has passed to complain but by law you can not commit a crime or theft and just wait a long time and say o well we win !!! They do NOT own our roads because they would need to have contact with every single property owner which is virtually impossible since a lot of these lots were purchased from the New York Times back in the 50s and the people that own them are simply not interested in becoming involved hence all three time the City & County & the "ASSOCIATION !!" went to court the judges ruled against them. We own 77 miles of roads in this subdivision not the C&C. 77 miles of roadway at a width of 30 feet (30 ft less than legally allowed for a C&C rd, plus an extra 5 ft for easements on each side). This works out to be many thousands of acres. And at fair market value to purchase the roadways under Eminent Domain laws would cost the County more than Highway 11 cost to build. Our roadways are actually considered One Lane and our signage (still in place I have photos as of yesterday) says so by telling residents that "outgoing traffic has the right of way.). The biggest mistake we all (including me)make is referring to these "driveway access" paths as roads because they never were designed to be roads since the acres inception. three times (most recently that I attended) in 1985 and 1993 a judge ruled that all these driveways were privately owned and HACA was an illegal entity with no power to collect money or for the C&C to turn into thoroughfare's without proper redress to eminent domain. The sign still exists on 9 road as of Sept. 19th 2016, while the exact other sign on A Rd & Kuauli was removed sometime during the the 1st week of Sept 2016. With signs we do not need to close our roads under the rules of "Prescriptive Easement". But with the signs removed you are correct without a yearly day closure or checkpoint set up we may be in a legal "quagmire" as to whether they can claim eminent domain. So we NEED to do this once a year beginning as soon as the remaining sign is stolen on 9 Rd.
a good example of our situation can be seen at this link-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-dri...e13631313/
"Any route that the government doesn’t own, but that people need to use has in it the seeds of social destruction. Most private road disputes do not end in gunfire (a simple knife fight will do), but the truth is that there are few driving pitfalls that can trigger more ill will than the existence of a private road. The urban equivalent is the shared driveway or as they call it in the UFC the “Octagon.” Why did Oedipus kill his father? They had an argument about right-of-way on a private road. Few fans know it, but novelist Cormac McCarthy’s gruesome tale of post-apocalyptic cannibalism, The Road, was originally called The Private Road, but the title was deemed too disturbing."
Another example of private ownership is as follows-
http://www.codepublishing.com/WA/LaCente...r1210.html
"Driving on a road marked Private as you described would be trespass, which is a civil offence. Therefore you cannot be arrested for being there. The owners can ask you to leave, and you should do so promptly. They can call the police if they desire but they cannot restrain you while they wait.
Only Aggravated Trespass is a criminal offence....". This is the way ALL other Emergency Routes are supervised by the County by putting up gates that only property owners get an access key to enter. THIS is the defense we need to proceed with. We NEED gates not police in our yards !!! Police are actually only allowed to drive these roads if they are on an actual documented 911 call or during a monumental act of nature to expedite the saving of lives. These laws are NOT designed for the theft of roadways just for convenience when adjacent lands are available that surround the subdivision in question.
I will happily set up a table once a year at one of the entrances to our subdivision but as you see I have no right to hold a person only to tell them not to enter, after they ignore that then we can take plate numbers and call the police under the "Aggravated Trespass..." rules. But it takes the police longer to respond than it does to blow it through the subdivision so we will need someone at the other exit/entrance stopping people at the same time I am in the front. Anyone who thinks allowing the C&C to take over our roads is simply a whacko and a person who is building here as an investment not to live here!! Because it is quite obvious that 8 Rd has become the newest way to avoid all the drunk/drug driving and seatbelt setups by the Police, and to spock out homes to rip off. I personally know of 3 people who have been armed and suffered home invasions since 8Rd has become the best known secret for all the crack & batu freaks. Heck almost every road now has drug houses full of squatters now !!!
I personally do NOT want to live in an area with crime similar to Detroit or Chicago!!! Do you???
The C&C as the authority wanting to open our roads to the public must first consider all the facts and balance the benefit received by the limited number of people who use the road against the burden imposed on the owner of the land over which the proposed road will cross.
They can not prove this since they own land around us and there could be shorter routes developed.
This all boils down to "EMERGENCY ROAD..." that I can deal with IF they install gates and issue keys to residents just as they do for every other similar route. But if they want to OWN the road then BUY IT, pay us each our share, and block access to every single access to our homes with gates and keys.
Sorry but I am passionate about this issue and getting older I am now more susceptible to home invasions which are horrific and not even reported on the news !!!