Aloha Chunkster,
In 22 years you would have seen a lot. And you would have arrived right after the recievership had ended (2001)., which is when Patadise Hui Hanalike changed their name to HPPOA, dissolved their Road Committee and took over sole administration of everything. I believe that was the last time, prior to this, where HPPOA was involved in a lawsuit that called into question their operating focus and governance. That lawsuit definitely did not settle matters- as we have witnessed over the years. But the judge DID define one, very clear fact and it is recorded, though HPPOA chooses to ignore it. HPP Owners CAN be members, but they are not required to be and DO NOT have to be if they do not wish to be. HPPOA cannot force owners to be members. The Hawaii Supreme Court knew this and so ordered, handing the decision back to the lower courts for them to come up with an "equitable" solution. Which is why Owners, not just the "select" members, were allowed to vote. Unfortunately, HPPOA has blurred the owner/member designation, forgotten the lawsuits and orders, and now wants to refashion itself as something it is not, because they want more control of the millions of dollars in road maintenance fees they collect every year. Just HPPOA wanting MORE control.
I know you know all of the above. Especially if you have been here 22 years. I suppose what really gets at me is that so many owners just shrug and do not seem to care that a VOLUNTARY community association is attempting to FORCE Owners to become members. Don't people care about free association? Don't people know/understand what free association is? This isn't something small, insignificant. This isn't a shrug moment. Since when is a VOLUNTARY club allowed to force you to be a member?
As for Waikahekahe and the study, Owners should be informed, educated. Because this is another decades long story that has been ignored, and if others do not push on the board, ask questions, discuss, HPPOA will do what it does best, let that issue (which they do not want to be bothered with and have others know too much about) sit on a back burner to be forgotten.
Aloh Hilo Julie,
You are absolutely correct. Definitely not enough participation. However, I would argue that some of this is the fault (intentionally) of HPPOA. And it started way back with Paradise Hui Hanalike.
PHH (now HPPOA) and their supporters were/are very happy collecting large sums of Road Maintenance Fee money. HPPOA also enjoys being the administrator who can decide how and where that money is spent.
When HPPOA was PHH, they had a relatively small number of members (in comparison to the total number of Owners). This small number of members (now supporters) was/is, as Chunkster pointed out, very cliquey and have never wanted to give up control. So what has occurred over the years is that PHH (now HPPOA) would organize and inform their small clique, while ignoring, dividing, or downright misinforming (or not informing at all) the rest. So if you are not part of the clique, you and what you believe are considered irrelevant. And since the clique has always been in charge (a minority of people with a lot of control) those who were not included in that group (even though they are the majority) have always deferred to the whims of the few.
Years of manipulation and conditioning.
It's called turning the tables.
In 22 years you would have seen a lot. And you would have arrived right after the recievership had ended (2001)., which is when Patadise Hui Hanalike changed their name to HPPOA, dissolved their Road Committee and took over sole administration of everything. I believe that was the last time, prior to this, where HPPOA was involved in a lawsuit that called into question their operating focus and governance. That lawsuit definitely did not settle matters- as we have witnessed over the years. But the judge DID define one, very clear fact and it is recorded, though HPPOA chooses to ignore it. HPP Owners CAN be members, but they are not required to be and DO NOT have to be if they do not wish to be. HPPOA cannot force owners to be members. The Hawaii Supreme Court knew this and so ordered, handing the decision back to the lower courts for them to come up with an "equitable" solution. Which is why Owners, not just the "select" members, were allowed to vote. Unfortunately, HPPOA has blurred the owner/member designation, forgotten the lawsuits and orders, and now wants to refashion itself as something it is not, because they want more control of the millions of dollars in road maintenance fees they collect every year. Just HPPOA wanting MORE control.
I know you know all of the above. Especially if you have been here 22 years. I suppose what really gets at me is that so many owners just shrug and do not seem to care that a VOLUNTARY community association is attempting to FORCE Owners to become members. Don't people care about free association? Don't people know/understand what free association is? This isn't something small, insignificant. This isn't a shrug moment. Since when is a VOLUNTARY club allowed to force you to be a member?
As for Waikahekahe and the study, Owners should be informed, educated. Because this is another decades long story that has been ignored, and if others do not push on the board, ask questions, discuss, HPPOA will do what it does best, let that issue (which they do not want to be bothered with and have others know too much about) sit on a back burner to be forgotten.
Aloh Hilo Julie,
You are absolutely correct. Definitely not enough participation. However, I would argue that some of this is the fault (intentionally) of HPPOA. And it started way back with Paradise Hui Hanalike.
PHH (now HPPOA) and their supporters were/are very happy collecting large sums of Road Maintenance Fee money. HPPOA also enjoys being the administrator who can decide how and where that money is spent.
When HPPOA was PHH, they had a relatively small number of members (in comparison to the total number of Owners). This small number of members (now supporters) was/is, as Chunkster pointed out, very cliquey and have never wanted to give up control. So what has occurred over the years is that PHH (now HPPOA) would organize and inform their small clique, while ignoring, dividing, or downright misinforming (or not informing at all) the rest. So if you are not part of the clique, you and what you believe are considered irrelevant. And since the clique has always been in charge (a minority of people with a lot of control) those who were not included in that group (even though they are the majority) have always deferred to the whims of the few.
Years of manipulation and conditioning.
(10-26-2024, 07:13 PM)MyManao Wrote:-----------(10-26-2024, 07:06 PM)Patricia Wrote: Most of them are not...
Are you really that dense?
It's called turning the tables.