09-22-2009, 03:39 PM
Interesting and thoughtful replies, all!
Carol,
Yes you are right. The charter budget cuts included the furlough percent cut plus. But that does mean that charters can handle the budget cuts as they see fit, as you said. And, yes, some charter school programs have no student contact hours on Friday. My class does, however, go "full time" and will to continue so.
Keaaukizzau,
That's HSTA logic for all to see!
Daniel,
That's an interesting idea, but getting DOE to go along with it (and parents) would be a sizable problem.
pslamont,
Can of worms? Perfectly put.
JerryCarr,
Charter schools have cut much of these garbage meetings out, but your point is right on. Educational reform via teacher inservice is often a lame idea with lame implementation. Even "standards-based" education will likely be seen historically as another in a series reform bandwagons undertaken with no research to support it.
Greta,
No need to straw man me.
I know how important unions have been historically. Teacher's unions are likely a necessary evil at this point, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be doing their job better, or that I should be happy with what they are doing. They suffer from the same top-heavy power-player troubles as the employers. As a public teacher in Hawaii I pay some $50/month to HSTA and watch them build administrative buildings and give money to politicians. And prevent _bad_ teachers from getting fired. And negotiate away student contact time...sigh.
As a charter school teacher, I can be "non-renewed" each year. There is no tenure, which I think is how it should be.
And yes the waste is horrific. If the public only knew! Some basic math. Let's say Hawaii spends 10K per student per student per year (it is way more, especially including SPED, which is often more than 20K per SPED student).
A 4th grade class I had at Keonepoko years ago had 34 students, but lets say, 30 students.
30 X $10,000 is $300,000 dollars. Let's say the teacher's salary is $50,000, that leaves $250,000 for overhead, including facilities, materials, principals, librarians, Hamamoto,etc.
How does that compare to a real world classroom budget at a charter school? I have on average 20 6th grade students at HAAS Charter school, and the per pupil DOE "reimbursement" has varied over the years, but let's use 5,000 (which is a bit more than is happening this year) but it is a nice round number. 20 students X $5,000 is $100,000. Take half for the teachers salary. That leaves $50,000 for overhead. Even at $20,000 per year classroom rent, that leaves $30,000 for furniture, books, materials, computers, etc--much of which could be considered a depreciated capital expense that won't be needed every year.
We can bicker the details of the actual numbers, but what happens to that extra $150,000 per class at Keonepoko and every other regular DOE school? (Some extra SPED money goes to charter schools, but it also goes to regular DOE schools, so it doesn't really change the basic argument here.)
How is that kind of overhead tolerated in a democracy? The waste is absolutely horrific. People who run their own small business would _love_ an overhead (above salary) figure like that, no?
If public education for all is a value our society holds, why not give the parents a $6,000 per year "voucher" and they can go shopping for the school they prefer (DOE, charter, or private)? The cost to tax payers is pretty much halved. The variety and diversity of schooling options would quickly multiply.
To put it another way, society has decided that monthly stipends for the elderly (social security), and, say, monthly stipends for the poor to buy food (food stamps) are of value to society. But we don't say you have to spend your social security check, or food stamps, only at government stores. (Actually, that might be an idea for food stamps...)
The old libertarian ideal that "education is too important to leave to the government" might need some modification these days: education may be too expensive to leave to the government. And, a really bad return on investment.
I don't really want to hijack the thread I started but, sheesh, I am a parent and a teacher and a tax payer, and I'm just plain tired of this lunacy...
OK, I'm done whinging.
I wonder how the teachers voted today...
Kirt
Carol,
Yes you are right. The charter budget cuts included the furlough percent cut plus. But that does mean that charters can handle the budget cuts as they see fit, as you said. And, yes, some charter school programs have no student contact hours on Friday. My class does, however, go "full time" and will to continue so.
Keaaukizzau,
That's HSTA logic for all to see!
Daniel,
That's an interesting idea, but getting DOE to go along with it (and parents) would be a sizable problem.
pslamont,
Can of worms? Perfectly put.
JerryCarr,
Charter schools have cut much of these garbage meetings out, but your point is right on. Educational reform via teacher inservice is often a lame idea with lame implementation. Even "standards-based" education will likely be seen historically as another in a series reform bandwagons undertaken with no research to support it.
Greta,
No need to straw man me.
I know how important unions have been historically. Teacher's unions are likely a necessary evil at this point, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be doing their job better, or that I should be happy with what they are doing. They suffer from the same top-heavy power-player troubles as the employers. As a public teacher in Hawaii I pay some $50/month to HSTA and watch them build administrative buildings and give money to politicians. And prevent _bad_ teachers from getting fired. And negotiate away student contact time...sigh.As a charter school teacher, I can be "non-renewed" each year. There is no tenure, which I think is how it should be.
And yes the waste is horrific. If the public only knew! Some basic math. Let's say Hawaii spends 10K per student per student per year (it is way more, especially including SPED, which is often more than 20K per SPED student).
A 4th grade class I had at Keonepoko years ago had 34 students, but lets say, 30 students.
30 X $10,000 is $300,000 dollars. Let's say the teacher's salary is $50,000, that leaves $250,000 for overhead, including facilities, materials, principals, librarians, Hamamoto,etc.
How does that compare to a real world classroom budget at a charter school? I have on average 20 6th grade students at HAAS Charter school, and the per pupil DOE "reimbursement" has varied over the years, but let's use 5,000 (which is a bit more than is happening this year) but it is a nice round number. 20 students X $5,000 is $100,000. Take half for the teachers salary. That leaves $50,000 for overhead. Even at $20,000 per year classroom rent, that leaves $30,000 for furniture, books, materials, computers, etc--much of which could be considered a depreciated capital expense that won't be needed every year.
We can bicker the details of the actual numbers, but what happens to that extra $150,000 per class at Keonepoko and every other regular DOE school? (Some extra SPED money goes to charter schools, but it also goes to regular DOE schools, so it doesn't really change the basic argument here.)
How is that kind of overhead tolerated in a democracy? The waste is absolutely horrific. People who run their own small business would _love_ an overhead (above salary) figure like that, no?
If public education for all is a value our society holds, why not give the parents a $6,000 per year "voucher" and they can go shopping for the school they prefer (DOE, charter, or private)? The cost to tax payers is pretty much halved. The variety and diversity of schooling options would quickly multiply.
To put it another way, society has decided that monthly stipends for the elderly (social security), and, say, monthly stipends for the poor to buy food (food stamps) are of value to society. But we don't say you have to spend your social security check, or food stamps, only at government stores. (Actually, that might be an idea for food stamps...
)The old libertarian ideal that "education is too important to leave to the government" might need some modification these days: education may be too expensive to leave to the government. And, a really bad return on investment.
I don't really want to hijack the thread I started but, sheesh, I am a parent and a teacher and a tax payer, and I'm just plain tired of this lunacy...
OK, I'm done whinging.
I wonder how the teachers voted today...
Kirt