Ambulance Lights But No Siren...

[Dave M]

There are three levels of response;

Code 1 (No light and no sirens proceed at the same rate of speed as evryone else on the road and observe all laws.

Code 2 (lights and "sirens" but still observing speed limits etc..) Lights and sirens are to give you a clear path through traffic.

Code 3 (lights and siren and up to but no more than 15 miles over the speed limit).

Now for that dreaded left turn lane situation. I'm first going to take control of the intersection using a thing called the whale and phaser sounds. Now every time is different 9 out a 10 times I'm going to use my PA to get through sometimes I'll go into the on-coming lane of traffic while telling the cars DO NOT MOVE. This is only when I know the on comming traffic has a red light. Most Emer. drivers are very cognitive of the fact that we can freak out a driver and make them pull into traffic which can cause a wreck.

My understanding as an ambulance driver is that if you have the lights on you should have your siren on as well.

Now with that said many drivers, myself included, may not always follow this rule/law. Reasoning is that at 4 am we try not to disturb the people in a neighborhood if the transport is not critical.

"""In California I was taught that all traffic must pull over and come to a stop for an emergency vehicle in response mode. It is not up to the drivers to judge what's enough room for the vehicle ... we don't know what it's doing."""

Thank you Kathy we love you.. There's a lot going on in that truck, everything from on the phone or radio to the receiving facility to having to make stops to apply the AED, starting an IV etc...

The only thing I can say about the asshole that passes you when you pull over is he will probably get to see first hand what goes on in the truck someday. As we say "he's a transport just waiting to happen"

I've had people cut me off and flip me off while I was code 3. Always remember it could be your family member in there or worse you.

One last thing the highest Medic/patch on the truck calls the code.. usually a paramedic.


Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"

[Green]

"lights on only" donut break,"lights & siren on " late for donut break !!!

[Bob Orts]

Here is the exact law for Hawaii:

[§291C-65] Operation of vehicles on approach of authorized emergency vehicles. (a) Except as otherwise provided by county ordinance, upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of audible and visual signals, the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position clear of any intersection and parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right hand edge or curb of the highway or the nearest edge or curb when the highway has multiple lanes or when the highway is a divided highway or one-way street and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle is passed, except as otherwise directed by a police officer.
(b) This section shall not operate to relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons using the highway. [L 1971, c 150, pt of §1]

Note: State law requires both the use of lights AND sirens (not one or the other) for a vehicle to be considered an emergency vehicle, otherwise it’s just another vehicle on the road. The operators of emergency vehicles can not expect the citizens to be held to a high level of responsibility if they do not hold themselves to their own legal responsibility under the law.

[Bob Orts]

The manuals still say "OR" and that's because it wants people to respond to the emergency vehicle's lights or siren. However, you as an ordinary citizen driving on the streets can not be cited for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle unless that vehicle is using both.

The reason HI probably states "AND" and not "OR" is because of situations we all find ourselves in. If you drive in any major metro area, how many times have you been passed (often to your surprise) by an emergency vehicle running with lights but no sirens? Let’s say your driving and concentrating on traffic in front of you, suddenly a car in front of you starts to radically slow down and changing lanes, is your first response "Gee, let me check all my mirrors to see if there happens to be an emergency vehicle with only it’s emergency lights on that is causing this nice driver to slow and move to the right", or do you say "What the heck is this idiot doing?, I need to move to the left and get around this drunk before he smashes into me!" Now, how would that same scenario play out if the emergency vehicle was also using its siren?

Truth is we don't always see the emergency lights if we're concentrating on the road. But if they were both in use, the chances are greater the vehicle will be recognized. That's why the State of Hawaii states that an emergency vehicle is not an emergency vehicle unless both visual and audible signals are in use.

[wjbillock]

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Personally I respond to either lights or sirens combined with the emergency vehicle obviously going into emergency driving mode ... it's pretty easy to tell when the driver is trying to get around or through traffic.

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I'm sure most of us respond when we see the lights or hear the sirens. What I have issue with is the idiots who don't respond.

I also have issue with those ambulance drivers, lights on, who come around a corner behind you and then turn their siren on.

1) It scares the hell out of me!
2) It pisses me off!
3) It's dangerous!

If you're transporting a victim in need of medical assistance. Lights AND Siren please...all the time...day or night...NO EXCEPTIONS!

Emergency situations require every possible means of alerting the drivers on the road.

If it were me or my family inside...I'd want a clear path to the Hospital...not a possible accident because my driver was more concerned about waking someone up!



"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman

[Dave M]

""If you're transporting a victim in need of medical assistance. Lights AND Siren please...all the time...day or night...NO EXCEPTIONS!""

Well actually there are some exceptions. If the paramedic says to shut off the siren then there's your exception. Some people being transported have a problem with a thing called Shock as well some are just freaking out therefore we may turn down the interior lights and shut off the siren. Some people are long transports between hospitals and they are sedated etc..

Another possibility, of course I'm not talking about you here, is that the driver, not you, has the radio on and is carrying on a conversation on their cell phone this along with the fact that the emergency vehichle is approaching from behind at a high rate of speed therefore the sound doesn't become noticeable until the ambulance is pretty close.

The bottom line is that with the way cars are made today (quiter and tighter) and certainly at night the lights are many times the first and most noticeable warning. The siren is most effective at intersections, but that's not to assume that the guy with the windows up and the ipod in his ear hears it.

Like I said before if it's "NOT CRITICAL" I'm not waking up the neighborhood at 4am.
The lights overwhelm an area and if, at 4am a driver, not you, doesn't see them I'm good enough that I don't ever assume that the other driver does sees them, then I will hit the whale, if that freaks him out so be it. Truth be known, if a driver doesn't see an ambulance at night then he/she probably should have had a designated driver.

As I said earlier it is a standard procedure that if the lights are on then the siren should be on. Facts are, that is just not always what's best for the patient etc.. This is where you may be having a struggle see it's really not about you.

If I were you I would get the unit number and report the driver to the trooper/police the local hospital etc.. Now if you go to a cop, don't be surprised if he starts qouting the drivers manual, mumbo jumbo, about checking your rear view mirror every 10 seconds etc..

Oh and BTW, if you see an ambulance comming around the corner you may not hear the siren untill after you see him, depending on where in the cycle the siren is.





Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"

[wjbillock]

quote:

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Well actually there are some exceptions. If the paramedic says to shut off the siren then there's your exception. Some people being transported have a problem with a thing called Shock as well some are just freaking out therefore we may turn down the interior lights and shut off the siren.

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This is exactly my point; and when this siren is off there is and increased chance of causing an accident. Something needs to be done about the sound issues inside the compartment then.

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Some people are long transports between hospitals and they are sedated etc..

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Then neither lights nor sirens are needed. Don't use one w/o the other.

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The bottom line is that with the way cars are made today (quiter and tighter) and certainly at night the lights are many times the first and most noticeable warning. The siren is most effective at intersections, but that's not to assume that the guy with the windows up and the ipod in his ear hears it.

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That's a huge assumption. At least give drivers a chance to first HEAR the siren and then SEE the lights. ipods should be illegal while driving anyway.

quote:

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Like I said before if it's "NOT CRITICAL" I'm not waking up the neighborhood at 4am.
The lights overwhelm an area and if, at 4am a driver, not you, doesn't see them I'm good enough that I don't ever assume that the other driver does sees them, then I will hit the whale, if that freaks him out so be it.

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Like I said before, if it's "NOT CRITICAL" there's no need for lights or a siren.

quote:

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As I said earlier it is a standard procedure that if the lights are on then the siren should be on. Facts are, that is just not always what's best for the patient etc.. This is where you may be having a struggle see it's really not about you.

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No...it's not about me...it's about increased public safety. You always "HEAR
before you "SEE".

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Oh and BTW, if you see an ambulance comming around the corner you may not hear the siren untill after you see him, depending on where in the cycle the siren is.

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I guarentee the you have a 100% chance of not hearing a siren when it's not on. At least give drivers a chance to HEAR the emergency vehicle coming. Again...I'm not talking about the times that you HEAR the siren and then SEE the lights. I'm talking about the times...in broad daylight...down a straight road....or even coming around a corner...when you see drivers almost slamming into the back of other drivers or passing them on the right almost causing an accident because they don't HEAR a siren.

Food for thoughts...
If an ambulance is driving in the forest and it's lights are on...does it's siren make a sound?


"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman

Edited by - wjbillock on 09/12/2007 07:35:40

[oink]

Well said Dave,
but some people won't listen, siren or otherwise.
There is also the issue that in certain traffic situations the ambulance will get through traffic faster with lights only as it appears that when some people hear the siren but don't see the lights, they just stop or slow to a crawl, in the road, and congest all traffic. Generally, experience teaches ambulance drivers the best way to get through traffic with the least risk. There will always be some people that get annoyed no matter what procedure is used. Sometimes if a person gets startled are scared they want to take out anger somewhere.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Dave M]

Thanks Oink, yes it's different every time we run a code, weather, traffic, situation inside the box etc.. Your point was valid.

OK wjbillock, here's the deal I'm sure that you mean well with all your helpful advice and I certainly do appreciate that.

But.. Since I have received several+ commendations and more than a few letters of appreciation regarding my "voluntary" operation of an ambulance as well as the fact that I'm certified at the State and Fed. level to operate an emergency vehicle, I'm just gonna keep doing it the way I was trained.

My best advice to you, again, is that you should write down the unit number and make a note of the time, road and direction of travel of the unit that has annoyed you and contact the police and/or local emergency room. I'm sure that they will be more than receptive to your concerns.



Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"

[wjbillock]

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But.. Since I have received several+ commendations and more than a few letters of appreciation regarding my "voluntary" operation of an ambulance as well as the fact that I'm certified at the State and Fed. level to operate an emergency vehicle, I'm just gonna keep doing it the way I was trained.

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I'm sure you will...and please understand I'm not questioning your heart, commendations, training and certifications.

quote:

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My best advice to you, again, is that you should write down the unit number and make a note of the time, road and direction of travel of the unit that has annoyed you and contact the police and/or local emergency room. I'm sure that they will be more than receptive to your concerns.

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Once again...it's not about being annoyed...it's simply a matter of public safety. And, truthfully, it requires more attention than local authorities can give.
I'll stick with my original plan and take it to legislation.

Mahalo Dave

"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman