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Opihikao, has it occurred to you that the whole TMT ordeal has damaged the image of Hawaiian culture in the eyes of many? When the protesters take over the stage and present themselves as speaking for all Hawaiians without any clear message from anyone to the contrary, many people will assume that most or all Hawaiians are of a like mind. You and I both know better, but image matters. I actually had one young protester who came over from Oahu argue with me in the Safeway parking lot (as he loaded his car with mainland junk food) that what non-Hawaiians thought didn't matter. He and his friends were going to "take Hawaii back."
Now if any sort of Hawaiian sovereign entity is going to be reborn and then survive, it will need the good will of the non-Hawaiian majority of citizens of this state to thrive. Creating hostility isn't going to lead to success.
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the whole TMT ordeal has damaged the image of Hawaiian culture in the eyes of many
Yes. That "culture" now seems to mean "pay the toll or get off the island."
Creating hostility isn't going to lead to success.
Not all hostility is "Hawaiian", much of it seems to come from the old asian men who run the County and State.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chunkster
Opihikao, has it occurred to you that the whole TMT ordeal has damaged the image of Hawaiian culture in the eyes of many? When the protesters take over the stage and present themselves as speaking for all Hawaiians without any clear message from anyone to the contrary, many people will assume that most or all Hawaiians are of a like mind. You and I both know better, but image matters. I actually had one young protester who came over from Oahu argue with me in the Safeway parking lot (as he loaded his car with mainland junk food) that what non-Hawaiians thought didn't matter. He and his friends were going to "take Hawaii back."
Now if any sort of Hawaiian sovereign entity is going to be reborn and then survive, it will need the good will of the non-Hawaiian majority of citizens of this state to thrive. Creating hostility isn't going to lead to success.
Aloha, Chunkster. Yes. On the other hand, it has raised great interest on an international level, so we shall see if reason can prevail.
Some of these professed "protectors" who are Hawaiian, have not yet learned the art of negotiation, nor have they learned how to be "ha'aha'a". No one is going to "take Hawai'i back", etc. Ridiculous.
As to the hostility created (over the course of, perhaps, one hundred years), worse is the infighting between the various entities professing to be "King(s)", "Queen(s)", Tribe, American Natives, what ever we're called. Frankly, I believe that is by design; the longer we have infighting, the "occupier" wins.
I will say, that for the first time in my life the core issues of the overthrow are coming to light, with Hawaiians setting aside manini differences, for the greater good. Clinton's apology to Hawai'i may bear some weight in the process of "recognition and reparation" (if any is forthcoming; you know the vagaries of the law, and all that...). Kala mai, slightly O/T, but wanted to respond.
As always, appreciate your candor and decent discussion. Please accept my apology for your experience with this young "warrior" in the parking lot of Safeway. He knows no better.
Have a lovely evening.
JMO.
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Most if not all of my Hawaiian ancestry friends have lived off island and as a result of experiencing the reality of this planet come back with a great appreciation for being part of the USA and a realistic viewpoint of what happened when the monarchy was completely bankrupt, in major trouble and asked for help from the US government when the brutal Japanese had their plans to invade.
Basically healthy people want to get out and see the world. Habitual heavy pot smokers and other impaired folk seem to be the ones who never leave and have erroneously determined that the islanders were "wronged" by the white people...ad nauseum.
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
the whole TMT ordeal has damaged the image of Hawaiian culture in the eyes of many
Yes. That "culture" now seems to mean "pay the toll or get off the island."
Creating hostility isn't going to lead to success.
Not all hostility is "Hawaiian", much of it seems to come from the old asian men who run the County and State.
(BBM) EO, Kalakoa! Mahalo.
Aloha ahiahi, dakine. Mahalo for your continued support of our people and our rights. The overthrow was a horrendous time for many. The art of war, indeed, was in place; 1) kill the language (communication), 2) make these people assimilate to our ways (Western culture), 3) teach them Christianity, and "forget" the Akua, Aumakua, and Kupuna teaching, among other things.
Now, (*disclaimer: my Kupuna signed the Ku'e Petition, many of whom would NEVER traverse to the summit of Mauna Kea. That was "Kapu") how do we move forward is the question. I happen to really like most of you folks here on PW, and like/love lots of people who are not originally from here, never mind, Hawaiian (Kanaka maoli). Some ka po'e haole are more "Hawaiian" than some Hawaiians (in values, mannerisms, etc.)!
Mahalo again for your verve, and love of our 'aina and our people. Imua kakou.
JMO.
P.S. Killing time, as we wait for police to come to our "back house" since some freaking ice heads broke in and ripped off my son who lives there, with my mo'opuna. Going to clean my shotgun in the window tonight...again. Ugh! [  !] (sorry for the O/T; SO pissed off.).
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Dakine, the last time I looked, it wasn't "lily white a**holes" who were running this place. What a racist statement from someone who implies that others are racist! And yes, I take no responsibility for what some people did 123 years ago. How far do you want to go back with your own collective guilt? I'm sure we could find something in your ancestral closet to blame you for. That's an easy game to play. Tell us your ethnic background, and we will look up some nice atrocities to lay on you.
There I go feeding a troll again.
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Another hit and run post from dakine? Say it ain't true...
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Yes, Tom, I should have hit the quote button to preserve dakine's latest racist rant. Now it's gone. <Sigh>
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At first, several years ago, not knowing much about the observatories on top of Mauna Kea, it seemed like TMT was a no-brainer.
After this amount of time, finding out how the first telescopes got up there, bulldozing the most prominent cinder cones, the reality of how much in the way of education and local employment hasn't happened, the power structure of UHH-Manoa over UHH, and the biggy, time and construction costs in Hawaii, it does seem TMT isn't a good fit for this island.
Nobody seems to notice all these large engineering projects in Hawaii cost at least twice as much and takes four times longer than the initial estimates. The Honolulu rail, the Pepeekeo power plant, the macademia nut shell energy plant is rusting away, also with the promise of jobs:
http://auctions.tigergroupllc.com/cgi-bi...igergrp106
For TMT, there will be local jobs for the initial foundation construction but you know it will be off-island crews for the main construction. Even then, the estimate right now is $1.4 Billon and 8 years of construction. If you take Hawaii island past record of estimates, that means $2.8 Billion and 16 years. By then, it will be marginally obsolete.
Why is TMT on Mount Fuji not brought up? hehehe
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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without recognizing that it is the haoles that are at the root of it.
dakine, that's really a branch, not a root, isn't it? Tell me, at the root, wasn't it either Eve, or the Snake?
The moon kind of surprises me sometimes. I’ll be out at night and I’ll see a nice moon, and say, “Hey, that looks good.” Then I’ll say, “Oh sh-t, I went up there one time!” Kind of surprises me. It’s like there are two Moons, you know—the one that’s usually around, and then that one. - Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut
“We do this thing not because it is easy, but because we thought it would be easy.”
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