Another almost near disaster

[terracore]

What happens when all the seasoned Captains are gone?

Most of the previously unseasoned have by then become seasoned, right?

Sully Sullenberger-now that's a great name.

I was under the impression that pilots are well compensated these days, especially with enjoying a big pay bump in the past year.

Oddly enough, pilot pay is regulated by the 1926 Railway Labor Act.  The median salary is about $220k and the highest paid pilots make over $400k.  That sounds pretty good, but they generally only get paid while flying.  Or more accurately, when the aircraft is moving: Most airlines use a system based on "block hours" which is the time from when the airplane pushes back from the gate to when it arrives at the destination gate.  Sitting around waiting for their delayed aircraft to show up doesn't necessarily qualify them for compensation.  A friend of mine was an airline pilot and quit.  It appears like a glamorous occupation but after a few years of never being home, sleeping in hotels every night, eating crap food, and having a mind-numbingly boring job he couldn't take it anymore.  Basically his job was to take off and land the aircraft, and in between the two the job was 99% watching the aircraft fly itself.  

Another friend of mine is a retired air force pilot.  He got his civilian pilot's license just because but he never flew again after the military.  I don't know what happened but he has some form of PTSD.  He told me one of the more difficult airfields he took off and landed from was at PTA.  High altitude and warm weather, a short runway for the type of aircraft he was flying, and the wind was blowing in different directions depending on which end of the runway it was being measured.

[HiloJulie]

Oddly enough, pilot pay is regulated by the 1926 Railway Labor Act.  The median salary is about $220k and the highest paid pilots make over $400k.  That sounds pretty good, but they generally only get paid while flying.  Or more accurately, when the aircraft is moving: Most airlines use a system based on "block hours" which is the time from when the airplane pushes back from the gate to when it arrives at the destination gate.  Sitting around waiting for their delayed aircraft to show up doesn't necessarily qualify them for compensation.  A friend of mine was an airline pilot and quit.  It appears like a glamorous occupation but after a few years of never being home, sleeping in hotels every night, eating crap food, and having a mind-numbingly boring job he couldn't take it anymore.  Basically his job was to take off and land the aircraft, and in between the two the job was 99% watching the aircraft fly itself. 

Another friend of mine is a retired air force pilot.  He got his civilian pilot's license just because but he never flew again after the military.  I don't know what happened but he has some form of PTSD.  He told me one of the more difficult airfields he took off and landed from was at PTA.  High altitude and warm weather, a short runway for the type of aircraft he was flying, and the wind was blowing in different directions depending on which end of the runway it was being measured.

The pilots’ rate of pay is what is negotiated between the respective airlines and the union representing that airlines pilots. The 1926 Railway Labor Act regulates the procedures and methods of behavior by and between the various airlines and their pilot unions.

Any pilot making 400K or more a year, is going to be at least a 15 to 20 years of service pilot, would be crossed trained on numerous aircraft with considerable flight hours on each type and would be flying long haul flights in mostly wide bodied 767, 777, 787 or the Airbus equivalents for the major airlines. They would also be Senior Captain in rank. They would be the equivalent in terms of flight hours, experience, training and dedication to aviation as Sully.

But then, you have the “regional” and “low cost” airlines that fly short haul/commuter flights. Those pilots can achieve the rank of Captain in as few as 4 to 5 years – Senior Captain in less than 10 and only be certified on 2 maybe 3 small narrow bodied aircraft. With significantly less flight hours as well. At best, those pilots would earn 200K a year.

And in as much as pilot pay has increased since the Hudson River landing, what’s still an issue today is training. In fact, the 2 737 MAX jets that crashed, killing all onboard, was due to a revised highly sophisticated computerized flight control system that Boeing spent tens of millions of dollars to produce and then spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying the FAA to not require any training of the pilots about it – even going so far as to removing sections about its operation from pilot manuals. Further, Boeing then found out it that this system was prone to failure and would do EXACTLY what it did on the 2 737 Max accidents, but again, spent millions of dollars burying the issue instead of dealing with the issue. In the case of the 2 737 Max crashes, in addition to the clear lack of training, the relative inexperience of the pilots in actual aviation was a contributing factor to these crashes. Further, the airlines all licked their chops at not having to spend any money for pilot training.

In as much as I can call myself a “well-seasoned, experienced flyer,” I would not dare to say I can fly a plane. However, I would think I am smart enough to know that if my computer controlled plane is sending me into a death sentence, I’d have the wherewithal to know how to stop that and fly the plane manually.

Another contributing factor to airline safety is the “block hour” pay method. 15 years ago, the pilot rule was 8 hours of rest before next flight. In the case of the Continental 3407 flight, it was determined that both pilots “clock” the night before ended as the plane stopped at the gate. After disembarkation of the passengers, paperwork, the shuttle ride from the airport to the hotel and then back to the airport the next morning and doing all the paperwork and preflight procedures, all non-compensated – but when 3407 pushed back from the gate, it was indeed exactly 8 hours later when their clock restarted. The pilots got less than what could be considered an actual 4 hours of sleep that night.

And now, today’s late breaking news “admission” by the outgoing CEO of Boeing – “Yes, we did retaliate against whistleblowers.”

WOW – just wow!

For me, I agree that with today’s modern aircraft the pilot is more or less watching the plane fly itself. Heck, most times its even landing by itself. But I sure as hell want the 2 people in the cockpit to know what the hell to do when something goes seriously wrong. And in as much as the Hudson River Landing was (I also hate this term) an “act of God” that caused the bird strike in the first place, Sully’s and Skiles’ TRAINING, EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE is what saved the day.

As for the Southwest flight issue, the junior pilot programmed the plane’s navigation computer with incorrect information, causing it to descend horrifically. The seasoned Captain was the one who realized what happened and was able to immediately turn off the navigation system, took manual control and made that jet climb back up like a rocket.

With all of the available computer guided systems available today, I would think that maybe we need to create some more synthetic voices like the ones that blare ‘TOO LOW” “TERRAIN” “PULL UP” added that when a pilot instructs the plane’s computer to perform what can only be called a death sentence maneuver, it would start to blare ‘YOU STUPID FU&^ING IDIOT – DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KILL EVERYONE ONBOARD?”

Sorry, I babbled so long!

Here’s a joke to make you laugh:

What do you call a black guy flying an airplane?

The Pilot, you racist bastard!

[TomK]

Oddly enough, pilot pay is regulated by the 1926 Railway Labor Act.  The median salary is about $220k and the highest paid pilots make over $400k.  That sounds pretty good, but they generally only get paid while flying.

I'd be interested in seeing the mean and mode as well. I understand that most airline pilots just starting out are not well paid and have already spent a lot of money just to get their licenses. They are also at risk of being furloughed whenever the industry hits a downturn. Personally, I have no problem with experienced pilots being well-paid. Just like doctors, they are responsible for a lot of lives, and I think their pay should reflect that.

[terracore]

Something similar happened again:

A Boeing 737 aircraft suddenly plummeted to less than 500 feet off the ground over Oklahoma, terrifying residents who feared the jet was going to crash.

Southwest Airlines Flight 4069 was nine miles away from Will Rogers World Airport just after midnight on Wednesday when records show the 737 dived to between 400 and 500 feet as it flew over a high school in the city of Yukon.

Doorbell camera footage showed the Boeing 737 MAX-8 then hovering above houses, before it flies out of frame.

The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating the incident and SouthWest has confirmed they are working with them to address any 'irregularities'.

A resident was startled awake by the plane's engine and wondered if the aircraft was set for a collision.

'It woke me up and I thought it was gonna hit my house,' the resident wrote on the Yukon Happenings Facebook page, according to The Oklahoman.

The sudden descent prompted air traffic control to call the pilot and check on the status of the flight.

'Southwest 4069, low altitude alert,' the air traffic controller could be heard saying in an audio archive of the transmission.

'You good out there?' he asked.

The pilot of the commercial flight from Las Vegas confirmed there was no issue with the aircraft, and circled back around - quickly regaining altitude from just about 450 feet to more than 1,000 feet as it crossed over Yukon High School.

It then landed safely at the airport in a different runway, and Air Traffic Control personnel confirmed there were no issues with the Boeing 737 Max-8, according to The Oklahoman.

But the low approach, along with the late hour, caused concern among residents in the city.

'I was kind of like halfway in between sleep, being awake, and I just hear that WHOOSH,' Spencer Basoco told KFOR.

'And I thought at first, like a storm was blowing in... because it just sounded like a wall of wind.

'And I looked out the window where the sound was coming from... if you go a few blocks away is the high school. And I just see a plane,' he recounted.

'I knew it wasn't normal.'

Southwest officials said they are working with the Federal Aviation Administration to determine what caused the sudden descent.

'Southwest is following its robust Safety Management System and is in contact with the Federal Aviation Administration to understand and address any irregularities with the aircraft's approach to the airport,' they said in a statement.

'Nothing is more important to Southwest than the safety of our customers and employees.'

But the sudden plunge comes as Boeing continues to make headlines for broken landing gears, doors popping off mid-flight and faulty software systems leading to catastrophic crashes in Indonesia in 2018 and Ethiopia in 2019 that resulted in multiple deaths.

Boeing's struggles in 2024 began in January when a panel called a door plug blew out of an Alaska Airlines 737 Max shortly after takeoff from Portland, Oregon, in January.

Current and former Boeing employees have accused the company of taking safety shortcuts, and the Arlington, Virginia-based company is under investigations by the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board and the Justice Department.

Earlier this month, a Boeing plane also experienced a rare Dutch roll - a combination of a yawing motion when the tail slides and the plane rocks from wingtip to wingtip.

As the bad news spread, it came to light that whistleblowers who have spoken out about the culture at the company had been fired.

The latest whistleblower, Sam Mohawk, a quality assurance investigator at Boeing's 737 assembly plant near Seattle, told the subcommittee that 'nonconforming' parts — ones that could be defective or aren't properly documented — could be winding up in 737 Max jets.

Potentially more troubling for the company, Mohawk charged that Boeing hid evidence after the Federal Aviation Administration told the company it planned to inspect the plant in June 2023.

The FAA said it would 'thoroughly investigate' the allegations. A spokesperson said the agency has received more reports of safety concerns from Boeing employees since the Jan. 5 blowout on the Alaska Airlines Max.

The company's repeated failure to fix the plentiful problems has led to skepticism on Capitol Hill and lawmakers torched CEO Dave Calhoun for his role in the airline's downfall Tuesday.

'Instead of asking what has caused Boeing's safety culture to erode, you and your colleagues in the C-suite have deflected blame, looked the other way, and catered to your shareholders instead,' Sen. Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut, said.

'Boeing needs to stop thinking about the next earning call, and start thinking about the next generation.'

[HiloJulie]

It will be interesting to find out what caused this. Another Boeing defect? Or pilot programming the flight control computer incorrectly. And then, how did the captain realize what was wrong and correct it.

But then, going back to pilot's pay - consider the CEO of Boeing was paid 33 million last year. He graciously gave up his "earned" 3-million-dollar bonus when the door plug blew off.

And, while being a "loyal" United Airlines customer for 4 decades now, the CEO of United was paid 19 million in 2023. And remember, he was the CEO of United that in the middle of a complete United breakdown on the East Coast recently, was able to get his ass home by chartering a private jet.

Go figure!

I sure hope I live to see the day when MH370 is eventually found. I hope they can get the cockpit voice recorders too.

[TomK]

"Southwest Airlines Flight 4069 was nine miles away from Will Rogers World Airport just after midnight on Wednesday when records show the 737 dived to between 400 and 500 feet as it flew over a high school in the city of Yukon.

Doorbell camera footage showed the Boeing 737 MAX-8 then hovering above houses, before it flies out of frame."


OK, we got a couple of things checked off. It was near a school, and the plane hovered. I don't blame terracore for not citing the source.

[terracore]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...rhood.html

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

and the plane hovered.

It would have to hover if people woke up at midnight, ran out of the house, and were still able to see a plane flying what, 200 mph at 400 feet above ground?

It was in Oklahoma, where you can be certain everyone is in bed sleeping at midnight.

[ChunksterK]

Have you ever been to Oklahoma? I have, and I assure that lots of people are up at midnight, especially the large number of meth heads. That explains the hovering as well.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

lots of people are up at midnight, especially the large number of meth heads.

Thank you ChunksterK for the correction. No I have not been to Oklahoma, thankfully, so I defer to your boots-in-the-ground intel. Also, I will make no plans to go there anytime soon!