alas, Graham, we hardly knew ye

[glinda]

quote:

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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

Should mistakes follow a person around forever? Or just mistakes which might be considered victimless crimes? In contrast to, let's say, someone who bails on almost a billion dollars in accounts payable to his vendors....

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Steal a little and they throw you in jail... Steal a lot and they make you king

[kalakoa]

blame this on Trump

Trump did change the "posture" to "deport any criminal regardless of circumstances".

Steal a little and they throw you in jail

Never commit crimes yourself. Hire a lawyer.

[seekir]

David M:

quote:

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Seems to be rather convenient, albeit somewhat self serving for many to blame this on Trump

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I'm with Eric 1600 on this. Deportation of aliens is not unique to the current era, but Mr. Trump's strident histrionics and rhetoric (wall building, muslim bans, his assumption that a hispanic judge was biased because of his heritage, mockery of a disabled hispanic reporter, his tweets disparaging the foreign-born father of a Muslim war hero who gave his life for the U.S...) make his xenophobia evident and undeniable. Many who have been fortunate enough to have had U.S. citizenship from birth are embracing Trump's intolerance and attitudes too enthusiastically. Few of these folks (like the knife-wielding bus rider who threatened two hijab-wearing women, killed and injured the brave men who came to their aid, and when arraigned described his attack as "patriotic") can claim they are of Native ethnicity. Though this character may have been deranged, there are too many in this country that really don't seem to be thinking too deeply about their own origins, or exhibiting much willingness to accept persons they lump into a group they view as foreign and therefore unwelcome.

[Eric1600]

These 2 people in Hawaii getting deported is a direct result of Trump's new focus.

The Trump administration’s far-reaching plan to arrest and deport vast numbers of undocumented immigrants has been introduced in dramatic fashion over the past month. And much of that task has fallen to thousands of ICE officers who are newly emboldened, newly empowered and already getting to work.

Gone are the Obama-era rules that required them to focus only on serious criminals. In Southern California, in one of the first major roundups during the Trump administration, officers detained 161 people with a wide range of felony and misdemeanor convictions, and 10 who had no criminal history at all.

The real question is: Does the punishment fit the crime?

For decades it costs about $5,000 dollars to hire an immigration attorney. The "unofficial" Immigration Policy of the US is constantly changing. 20-30 years ago it was much easier to attempt to get legal and if it failed, then just stay anyway (as some immigration attorneys would openly recommend to clients) -- and this is exactly what happened to many people like Ortiz. Others apply, fail, and then just overstay on a tourist visa. And some just sneak in.

Now, with new permission, many of the people now being rounded up by ICE are the easy ones, with jobs, families, homes, businesses.

“Before, we used to be told, ‘You can’t arrest those people,’ and we’d be disciplined for being insubordinate if we did,” said a 10-year veteran of the agency who took part in the operation. “Now those people are priorities again. And there are a lot of them here.”

Interviews with 17 agents and officials across the country, including in Florida, Alabama, Texas, Arizona, Washington and California, demonstrated how quickly a new atmosphere in the agency had taken hold. Since they are forbidden to talk to the press, they requested anonymity out of concern for losing their jobs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/ic....html?_r=0

Trump's "us vs them" strategy is not a new one. He has built and entire base of support off this. Here's a amazing 1947 film from the US War Department warning US Citizens to "Don't be a Sucker" for this type of thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk

[leilanidude]

eric1600 - thats nice but the reality is that every one of the people here illegally, already knew that deportation was a possibility. If they then chose to have a family or own a business, they accepted that risk.

[Eric1600]

If they then chose to have a family or own a business, they accepted that risk.
First off, for many of these people the choice is live in abject poverty and have nothing or go to the US and try to make a better life. It's not like they could just stay home and have the same results.

Secondly, I don't accept that all of them should be punished in this manner.

[Rob Tucker]

Please let us not wander into the swamp on this.

Keep it Hawaii.

Graham seems to have accepted his situation even if I have not. I know Graham and have benefited from knowing him. In my household his departure will be a sad reality. Considering the report of his having leukemia, at least back in England he will have health care.

[Kapoho Joe]

I hold 3 passports. I understand the onus is on me to keep my status on the straight and narrow. Blaming 'the system' or the President is a day-glo red herring. Graham had copious amounts of time to fix his immigration situation and failed to do so. This is not a matter of how nice a guy he was, or wasn't (YMMV), it's about following the laws of the land. The Mexican coffee guy in Kona is the same story.

[MarkD]

One thing baffling in this debate is the persistence of immigration supporters pushing the “Nation of Immigrants" argument.

Should I even begin to list the practices, policies or ideologies that were common in nations in the past, but are no longer observed or applicable today for various reasons?

The U.S. was virtually an empty land up until about 150 years ago. (Sorry for the plight of the North American Indians, whose pre-contact population ranged between 2 and 7 million [though some claim 18 million]). Europe had been a horribly crowded place for centuries, environmental resources strained. Emigration to the U.S. was beyond logical, pushed by frequent strife and religious intolerance and by events like the Irish potato famine, which killed about 1 million.

America did not even reach 100 million people until 1920. Robust immigration made sense for many decades. And the bulk of immigration was from Western Europe and Africa. Our primary heritage is Western European, African American, Hispanic and native American. One has to again apologize for the African American immigration under slavery.

Today we have about 326 million people. The greatness of our country has been aided by about 15-20 other immigrant groups that came to the U.S. in the past 150 years. And now, because of our past, we have not just an obligation but, some assert, a requirement to continue large-scale immigration? And to expand that opportunity to some countries and peoples with virtually no history in the U.S., cultures that have political beliefs very much at odds with our concepts of separation of church and state and treatment of women and gays? Why?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

And now, because of our past, we have not just an obligation but, some assert, a requirement to continue large-scale immigration?

Nobody is saying that.
But there are people who are already here and making a positive contribution.

Here's an example from the local animal population.
When the coqui frogs began immigrating to my yard, for several years I fought every one, every time I heard a mating call. Then, as time went on, I realized it was no longer worth the effort to fight them. They didn't disturb my sleep or cause undue harm. I don't however, purposely encourage additional large-scale immigration by coquis.

Now, rats and slugs are a different type of yard immigrant. With the advent of rat lungworm they are the real "bad hombres" and worth continued deportation efforts.

I didn't approve passports, visas, or work permits for any of them, but I selectively enforce extradition based upon other factors, including how I want to spend my limited time and my money.