August 8, 2026 Primary Election Results

[Punatang]

You can buy a ďouble duplex in HPP FOR $1,250,000.


So, you are against affordable housing.  A double duplex is 4 units.  Hence "double" + "duplex".  Maff is hard.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

A double duplex is 4 units.

Yes.
But if you live in one, you can legally only rent out one other unit, unless you are engaged in farming activity, then you can rent additional units to your workers.  As is noted in my previous comment.

[HiloJulie]

Here’s a Punaweb math problem for today.

You can currently buy a house in HPP for $600,000.
or
You can buy a ďouble duplex in HPP FOR $1,250,000.
1) calculate the down payment and monthly payments on $600,000.
2) calculate the down payment and mortgage on $1,250,000.
a) estimate what you would need to charge to legally rent out one unit.
b) develop a viable agricultural business plan for the remainder of the property that is not a house, catchment tank, or driveway so you can legally rent additional units as farm dwellings
Is the double duplex more affordable for either the owner or the renters?
Or is it more affordable to buy a single family house?
This is not a pick one question.  Show your calculations.

Excellent questions HOTPE and an interesting math test! I hope I score big! 

However, since I can only answer for numbers 1 and 2, let's just run the numbers as shown below. The rest of the questions can really only be determined on a case-by-case basis which would primarily be who can put up the cash required as shown below as well as have the credit qualifications in order to qualify for any such mortgage.

A $600,000 single family home: (Assumes a 7.25% 30-year mortgage)

@5% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $3,888.40
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $1,429,825.73 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 5% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $63,175.00 over the first 133 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@10% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $3,683.75
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $1,386,150.69 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 10% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $46,800.00 over the first 104 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@15% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $3,479.10
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $1,342,475.65 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 15% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $26,775.00 over the first 63 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@20% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $3,274.45
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $1,298,800.61 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 20% Down Payment, there is NO Private Mortgage Insurance required.
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

A $1,250,000 double duplex home: (Assumes a 7.25% 30-year mortgage)

@5% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $8,100.84
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $2,978,803.60 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 5% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $131,614.58 over the first 133 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@10% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $7,674.48
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $2,887,813.93 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 10% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $97,500.00 over the first 104 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@15% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $7,248.12
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $2,796,824.27 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 15% Down Payment, there is Private Mortgage Insurance required. Assume 1% of loan amount until principal is paid down to 80% of total loan adds another $55,781.25 over the first 63 months.)
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

@20% DOWN:
Monthly payment - Principal & Interest:     $6,821.76
Total cash paid over 30 years:                  $2,705,834.61 (Includes down payment, principal & interest)
(NOTE: At 20% Down Payment, there is NO Private Mortgage Insurance required.
Plus, property taxes and insurance - whatever that may be on an individual basis.

Interesting note: ANY 30-year fixed rate mortgage with an interest rate of 5.304% will yield the amount paid in interest over the 30 years to be the same as the original principal amount.

Maff is hard.

Yeah, bummer hey. Math, or as some say, maths, or as you say, maff, as well as reading comprehension skills must not spelled out for you on the Power Point Slide Deck of talking points either I guess.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Maff is hard.

It can be for some.  But not for everyone as HiloJulie’s numbers look spot on.

If someone wanted to buy a double duplex, live in one and rent out the other units legally, they might also need a business loan for structures, equipment, employee salaries while the business finds customers and generates an income.  There’s much more than that involved but it would create another loan payment on top of the mortgage. 

Would it create more affordable houses in Puna for either the owner or renters?  Or would a good financial advisor look over the numbers and point out affordability means lower, not higher.  Then ask their client if they have that much money, do they really want to run a business and become a triple (3) landlord with all of the accompanying complications and problems, rather than go to E*Trade, click “Buy” with their available funds and glance at the account balance every once in awhile until they click “Sell”.

[Punatang]

Here On The Primal Edge, 

When you refuse to be honest, then it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation. 

4 units where people can live for essentially the same price as two units where people can live is what affordable housing is all about.  The fact is that you apparently do not want this affordable housing option to proliferate.

Please tell us what your reason is for trying to influence our elected officials to work against affordable units for Puna families to live in.  Do your best to be honest.  Please.  Thank you.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

work against affordable units 

When you meet with your mortgage officer at the bank, and business loan specialist, proclaiming that you wish to be part of the housing affordability solution not the housing affordability problem, perhaps they will accept words on your applications rather than numbers.  But probably not.

Then on your way out the door accuse them of debanking practices, make numerous other assorted unfounded accusations, call them liars and see where that gets you.  See the bank customers stare, while waiting in line for a teller.

[Punatang]

How does me, asking why you wrote to Greggor Ilagan, asking him to take action against double duplexes, have anything to do with me applying for a loan?  It sounds like the bizarre ramblings of someone whose incessant virtue signaling has been exposed for what it is. 

If you have a problem with Double Duplexes, just own it.  That's fine.  I just asked why.  You may convince me and/or others that double duplexes are bad for some reason and we may join your cause and write Greggor along with you.  But trying to pretend that four (4) large housing units for the price of two (2) housing units somehow is against affordable housing is just silly and dishonest.  

Do you really believe that adding lower cost-per-unit housing in HPP reduces the overall affordability of housing in Puna?  

Does Greggor?

[HiloJulie]

How's about YOU Tang, grab that preverbal bull by the horns - go out - pick up a dozen or so vacant lots - clear them pin to pin - and build a nice double duplex on each one. Then, regardless of the total cost incurred by you in doing so, rent them out - to those less fortunate and then be there to manage their needs as tenants 24/7.

Win win for everybody right? And who cares about that pesky law about zoning issues and the number of allowable livable units on each lot, as has been pointed out to you several times - just march right ahead full steam into helping out our fellow Punatiks! Oh, yeah, just make sure the builder you hire, with 100% legal workers, builds these double duplexes on the correct lot and not the one next to the one you own!

You can do it! If you really care that is! But somehow, I think you really just don't give a damn.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

But trying to pretend that four (4) large housing units for the price of two (2) housing units somehow is against affordable housing is just silly and dishonest.

I agree 100%.
If you look at the floor plans of the two separate houses on the properties, they are each legally designed as single family homes. They can be purchased as such, the owner can live in one, and rent the other.  The upstairs of each unit has a kitchen area that’s not legally a kitchen, but it’s implied it could be easily converted into a separate unit.  And rented.

Legally it can be rented as a farm dwelling, if there is farm income on the property.  It cannot legally be rented if there is no farming activity.

The county will allow construction of two single family homes on the lot.  The county can also demand the owner prove there is farm income if they rent out more than one unit.  The county can also require more than one renter to move out if they are not farm workers.

This is the existing law on the books.  Any additional regulations would protect a buyer of a double duplex lot, insuring there is full disclosure in a sale concerning the legal aspects of rental possibilities.  If a buyer wanted to legally rent out 3 units on one lot and live in the other without farming, the law would need to be changed.

So yes:
trying to pretend that four (4) large housing units for the price of two (2) housing units somehow is against affordable housing is just silly and dishonest.

You can only pretend that this is a more affordable option because you have to also pretend it is legal. 
4 large housing units can only legally be rented for farm purposes.  4 units cannot be rented for non-farm purposes as the law stands.  Anyone stating otherwise is as you say “just silly and dishonest.”  

For someone to claim that anyone on this thread stated they are against affordable housing because they are against two units on a single lot is silly and dishonest.  No one has said they are against the legal use of two units on one lot - - either as owner occupied plus one rental, or as farm owner occupied plus 3 farm worker dwellings.

There is no reason to contact government officials about the existing law other than to protect potential buyers.  Someone who advocates for the legal rental of more than two non farm units on a single lot in HPP should contact officials to change the law.