Larry Ellison is a Greedy Douchebag

[ironyak]

Punatang - Who is John Galt?

John Galt is a paper-thin fictional character written by a substandard author who believed in the myth of the sovereign individual (man, that 50+ page speech chapter was ham-handed and indulgent). Ellison, Musk, et al didn't hew their wealth out of the gulches in the natural world, they received millions, even billions, in taxpayer funds, and built their bank accounts on the backs of publicly educated workers, using publicly funded infrastructure, in a system of publicly funded courts, under the protection of publicly funded police and military, utilizing a government-backed system of fiat currency financing. Their wealth is a creation of the State and the State can curtail their excesses and re-appropriate the profits from its investments if and when it chooses.

Billionaires should have to build themselves a shelter in the jungle using only their own two hands and local materials, like most of humanity has done throughout the millennia, before they go off boasting "look on my works ye mighty and despair."

HiloJulie - some of us "forward thinking" and proactive Punatiks who have done as much as we can to lower our own carbon footprint (cough cough lifetime of many multiple flight per year cough) and have as one of our choices, even at a personally significant financial cost, bought an EV or Hybrid vehicle, and even better if another step to lower our own carbon footprint is if we have invested in solar power and can recharge our EV or Hybrid at home, (Welcome to the "green side" terracore!) and as such, a nice drive over the Saddle to the Cosco, and possibly even plugging in while at Costco, that would leave such a minimal carbon footprint...

While EVs help reduce environmental impacts as compared to ICE, they still have plenty from their manufacture and operation via tire crumbs and other particulates (that bio-accumulating 6PPD-quinone is some nasty stuff).

The longer term actual solution is to reduce driving and unwinding all the car-centric infrastructure and physical arrangements so most trips don't requiring any driving at all (e.g. commercially develop those 20 acre lots in HPP and as available for other subdivisions so they can walked or biked to) and any trips further afield could be accomplished with public transportation (e.g. Railroad being an actual railroad again).

Basically, we all need to go woke and live like kalakoa, in a 15-minute village, again like most of humanity has done throughout the millennia.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

substandard author who believed in the myth of the sovereign individual

And she rationalized a loophole in her belief system so social security checks were mailed to her.  And cashed.  Wouldn’t writing another book for financial support in her golden years have displayed more of that professed can-do sovereign individual spirit?

Or did she perhaps finally understand, quietly, that there are times and situations when an individual might need outside support, perhaps even from a system that was established with “social” right in its name, right on the checks that were cashed?

[HiloJulie]

...Ellison, Musk, et al didn't hew their wealth out of the gulches in the natural world, they received millions, even billions, in taxpayer funds, and built their bank accounts on the backs of publicly educated workers, using publicly funded infrastructure, in a system of publicly funded courts, under the protection of publicly funded police and military, utilizing a government-backed system of fiat currency financing. Their wealth is a creation of the State and the State can curtail their excesses and re-appropriate the profits from its investments if and when it chooses.

Billionaires should have to build themselves a shelter in the jungle using only their own two hands and local materials, like most of humanity has done throughout the millennia, before they go off boasting "look on my works ye mighty and despair."

I agree with everything you said. But, why can't one say, more or less, that the American taxpayer AND voter approved all of it?

Be it local tax breaks for building a sprawling facility, all the way up to and including awarding billion-dollar contracts to go to the Moon and Mars, the taxpayer paid for it and, more importantly, voted for and elected the political machines that allowed it. Maybe we need to elect more "bigger visionary" people?

We have spent 93 Billion dollars so far for the Artimus project.

It is a circular equation. Give billionaires huge tax cuts and to pay for it, cut SNAP, Medicaid, health care, etc., but then turn around and award billionaires billions in government contracts and then, because we gave them those huge tax cuts, they don't pay many taxes on those billions. 

SO where does the 93 billion come from in the first place? It sure is not coming from my $40.00 a month Starlink subscription.

While EVs help reduce environmental impacts as compared to ICE, they still have plenty from their manufacture and operation via tire crumbs and other particulates (that bio-accumulating 6PPD-quinone is some nasty stuff).

But, in TOTAL, it is still LESS, as your graphs show, thus it is better. And even that much better when one has solar to recharge the batteries with. Did you manage to catch that video I posted a while back about the what if scenario if all cars today were electric and along comes a young engineer who proposes a new car that is gasoline powered? And why do you feel the need to toss in another "straw man" about "tire crumbs?" EVERY car on the road, regardless as to how it's propelled, leaves "tire crumbs." Even when your decade plus old gas guzzling carbon belching Puna ridge runner is being towed behind your buddy's 87 Dodge Ram Diesel to the repair shop!

And (see above) 93 Billion to go to the Moon and Mars and we can't build a mode of safe individualized transportation that is pollution free?

The longer term actual solution is to reduce driving and unwinding all the car-centric infrastructure and physical arrangements so most trips don't requiring any driving at all (e.g. commercially develop those 20 acre lots in HPP and as available for other subdivisions so they can walked or biked to) and any trips further afield could be accomplished with public transportation (e.g. Railroad being an actual railroad again).

Could not agree more. Amazes me how some of the people who live here in the Acres, who constantly complain about the roads, price of gas, wear and tear on the car, but can't plan their consumer needs more that 24 to 48 hours in advance. Oh, off to the store, need a gallon of milk, then tomorrow, off to the store, need eggs, then the day after that, oh, need a loaf of bread...

I'm all for public transportation. I don't know if a railroad is the way to go per se, but Hele-On runs on 8 Road in the Acres. Now, about the 1.5 mile walk from the house to the bus stop...

And don't get me started on the ridiculousness of the whole HPP 20-Acre lots nonsense...

Basically, we all need to go woke and live like kalakoa, in a 15-minute village, again like most of humanity has done throughout the millennia.

Or, as some do, move to Puna, buy a house, then complain that the roads are bad, no infrastructure, mail delivery, or stores in walking distance and then try to pave paradise and put in a parking lot.

Or, as others do, make sure they do everything they can do to prevent any of that from changing, but, nonetheless, keep complaining about it.

And then, if the 15-minute village is what some really want there are plenty of places in Hilo where it is all there.

At any event, this is Puna. And some also say, "Love it or leave it!"

[Punatang]

And she rationalized a loophole in her belief system so social security checks were mailed to her.  And cashed.  Wouldn’t writing another book for financial support in her golden years have displayed more of that professed can-do sovereign individual spirit?

Or did she perhaps finally understand, quietly, that there are times and situations when an individual might need outside support, perhaps even from a system that was established with “social” right in its name, right on the checks that were cashed?

Edge, respectfully I say unto the, where did you get the information that led you to your tu quoque falacy? - - Informed criticism is good. 

     

Ironyak, I do get the whole, "you didn't build that" line of thinking and I'm also not arguing with your thinking regarding 15 minute villages. It appeals to me on many levels. It sounds like Make Antiquity Great Again meets Make Amish Great Again.  Given that these places clearly exist already, and Kalakoa has led the way, are you planing to move to such a place soon? What would the consequences be if you do not? Please know that, at least in my mind, your answer about your personal choices will not negate or distract from the soundness of your 15-minute assertion. I have a thousand more questions and they come from a place of honest curiosity so please don't read any of this as snark or let it cause you to lash out.  Lady Tang and I have genuinely reached a point in life where your idea for a life choice really appeals to us. What do you feel are the most suitable spots in Hawaii? Mahalo in advance for sharing.

Tu quoque logical fallacy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

What Ayn Rand actually said about Social Security - https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/governmen...-security/

You didn't build that - https://youtu.be/9GjqdP6KSOE
 
Make Antiquity Great Again -  https://www.crailsheim.de/rathaus/heimat+_+geschichte (with killer illustrations - tip: allow all to scroll by)

Make Amish Great Again - https://www.pinecraft.com/about-pinecraf...-community (even The Amish are heading to Florida - go figure)

D-bag IMBY & information distribution - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Benioff

Perfidy (see below) - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/perfidy

Disclaimer: None of the above shall constitute any support for d-bag billionaires.  The author maintains that 99.9999973% of all Billionaires are total d-bags that do super d-baggy stuff like mass firings over zoom, and they should all be within eyeshot of at least one pitchfork at all times.  We maintain that the proletariat should remain fully focused on d-bag billionaires and not let them use their ownership of information distribution to turn us against one another and/or distract from their perfidy.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

What Ayn Rand actually said about Social Security

Finding a fanboy article and website to explain and defend a rationalized loophole with another rationalized loophole may not be as strong an argument as you think it is.


I can understand how someone isolated in a gated community might only see themselves surrounded by a world of sovereign individuals, but if you live in Puna and look around, and see the kind of cars people drive, count the number of expired safety stickers which cost under $30 that are affixed to those vehicles, stand in line at the grocery stores and notice how many people need food assistance, and medical assistance, and still after all of that feel like our neighbors just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps to solve their own problems?  Open your eyes!  Sometimes there are no bootstraps, figuratively.  There aren’t bootstraps to be had literally.

[leilanidude]

I'd hold off on that Canadian trip, regardless of how bad your eyes get, but maybe only have to use it once your health insurance premiums become too much to afford, and there are no publicly funded health care benefits available for you, and, God forbid, you contract a terrible disease.
----------
That wonderful Canadian healthcare system doesn't work too well. Long appointment wait times, difficult to get appointments with specialists, etc. People die waiting just to see the specialist or get procedures approved. This is why so many Canadians buy private health insurance even though they have the public insurance. Same thing in the UK, Spain and many other countries.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Long appointment wait times, difficult to get appointments with specialists, etc. People die waiting just to see the specialist or get procedures approved.

It takes six months for an appointment at the doctor in Puna Kai. Explain how the East Hawaii healthcare system is different from the examples you cited for Canada, etc?  

I’ll start!  The American healthcare system is far far far more expensive.

[HiloJulie]

I’ll start!  The American healthcare system is far far far more expensive.

I'll add! 

Canada's healthcare system is not a profit driven enterprise like the American healthcare system is. We don't see Canadian healthcare systems issuing quarterly 10-Q's discussing record breaking profits resulting in dividend payouts to shareholders and earning the CEO (mostly not even medically trained) a multi-million-dollar bonus payout and another tranche of stock option grants potentially worth tens of millions more, while telling grandma that the type of cancer she has will only pay for no more than 6 chemo sessions regardless of how many her doctor determines is needed.

[MyManao]

That wonderful Canadian healthcare system doesn't work too well..

Ya know, Dude, it sounds like you're a lobbyist for the good ol' America, love it or leave it, crowd. I'd say the red hatters but, well you know..

And I'll go beyond Edge's point of our costs verses theirs and all that to share an anecdotal story..

I have a friend, his son started having headaches.. they got worse.. and finally he took him to the hospital in Hilo (whose name shall not be mentioned) and the doc in the ER decided the kid had a brain tumor and needed an operation immediately. Like right then.. that night. And proceeded to cut the poor guys head open, and once inside decided he was out of his depth, didn't know what he was doing, and closed him up. And, while doing so put in a shunt to allow for the excess fluids that would naturally build up to drain. And the fucking idiot put the shunt in backwards! And before dawn the kid had spinal meningitis.

So yeah, Dude, over here in good ol' wave that flag we're full of patriotic shit America, you might get it fast.. but omg we sure know how to get it wrong too.

Literally, Dude, methinks one has to be far short of a full deck to be waving that flag anymore.. especially about our healthcare system. Lordy be that's a * stretch. And still, I have to admit, when you're the guy on the slab you're praying that the guy looking down at you walks on water.. no matter where or what kine flag the * is wearing..

[ironyak]

HJ - But, why can't one say, more or less, that the American taxpayer AND voter approved all of it?
Unfortunately, as you probably know, what the voters want, and what congress does, have little to no relationship, which has only gotten worse since Citizens United. Did you see a checkbox on your Hawai'i State ballot to give yet more billions to billionaires before you dropped it in the mail or dropbox? I didn't, but that may just be my failing eyesight, or maybe mine was one of the missing 19,000 votes so it wouldn't have mattered anyways. ;)

if scenario if all cars today were electric and along comes a young engineer who proposes a new car that is gasoline powered?
That's quite literally what happened at the beginning of cars, it's just that the energy density of batteries couldn't compete then with that of fossil fuels, like they can now.

EVERY car on the road, regardless as to how it's propelled, leaves "tire crumbs."
Correct, which is why just electrifying the current car-centric infrastructure is not a sustainable solution - actually need less cars and driving overall. Maybe those "big visionary" people in the Acres and other burbclaves can do a tool & car share where those with the electrified options exchange their use for other local goods and services (I know, I know, you pick up peoples fifths and handles and such - just imagining it as a more wide spread and maybe health-oriented practice, and yes, we too are often sharing tools and labor as well, and ending up with pineapples and other local goodies at the gate). Now imagine guzzoline at $10+ a gallon to see how essential these sorts of arrangements might be - good to get the practice in now.

At any event, this is Puna. And some also say, "Love it or leave it!"
Not to repeat known history, but Puna was a not-meant-to-be-inhabited swamp-land tax scheme as designed by the insiders at the County, which has become the fastest growing district in the state. What it will become next depends on choices made now so if you don't want it to be pin-to-pin paved and strip-malled (even if only with 120sq ft jungle shack store fronts) best to figure out other options now (including reducing the induced demand for yet more lanes and businesses on the highway)

---

Tang - Given that these places clearly exist already, and Kalakoa has led the way, are you planing to move to such a place soon? What would the consequences be if you do not?
Nah, moving costs so much carbon, so I'm taking up Kalakoa's original mission, noting (repeatedly) how the "Drive to Hilo" arrangement is not working for Puna's people and environment, and how we might address it (my cover of his old Freebird so to speak). For my part, that's mostly buy as little as possible (have you seen the prices these days!?!), drive much less (recently went 4 weeks without driving - as Julie mentioned, plan the essential trips, stock-up while there, ask someone in the local community to grab the needed odd or end while on their Drive to Town, and live close enough to some vestige of civilization to walk or bike there as needed - ETA: horses are cool too - have some peeps in the area that ride those as needed, but haven't seen one hitched up outside the local store fronts yet). When people don't have access to cheap energy, they tend to lead much more local and environmentally sensible lives. Again, best to plan for this future now.

Maybe I'll make me one of those Amish wagons from local materials or scrap pallets to help haul back my bobbles - ah the technology-selective Amish, can't drive a car but can take a bus to Florida, make it make sense Lord. Maybe they just read too much self-serving Ayn "opposes every “redistribution” scheme of the welfare state" and 'the opponent of Social Security can collect it because it was taken under coercion' Rand (sorry girl, the State took your money and redistributed it to the olds - you're now just taking your money as its redistributed from the young - how morally consistent ;)

---

randomq - most hotels are probably already owned by out of state entities...
That got me looking - ran across this interesting article on the rise of Private Equity ownership of hotels in Hawai'i (also lists out some of the private individual owners, like Leisure Suit Larry on Lanai).

Anyone know of a locally owned hotel to support instead of a Blackstone or International Conglomerate property? We tend to do local Ohana rentals for stay-cations (but may reappropriate some lagoon and hot tub time at the Kona Disneyland on occasion ;) but would be interested to know if people have preferred locally owned go-to's for the occasional special event. Thanks!