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DHHL meetings on geothermal energy exploration
#51
US Navy operates semi-sealed (they only open them up every 20 years for refueling) small reactors...
Yes, as the most expensive source of electrons possible - reactor is a couple billion and refueling alone is hundreds of millions of dollars. Going to have to really tax those second properties in Hawai'i to subsidize that development!

Or you know, you could go with the lowest cost per watt sources, without all that spent fuel pollution, which are already readily available - wind and solar.

DHHL geothermal will move ahead with minimal "pushback".
Doesn't sound like you've attended many geothermal community meetings... Or looked online for the current reaction to DHHL's announcement. Best bet is to bring popcorn.
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#52
(05-11-2026, 07:33 PM)HereOnThePrimalEdge Wrote: US Navy operates semi-sealed 

I don’t think they’re at Pearl Harbor are they?  Maybe they’re used in less geological and weather affected locations?  There are plenty on the subs. Some on ships I’ve heard.

The aircraft carriers and subs are nuclear. They cost so much because they are built inside ships, not built on land. Get rid of the cost of the ship and the cost is dramatically less. Refueling on land without the need for dry dock or cutting the ship up to get access to the reactors would also be much cheaper. Their designs are well tested.
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#53
(05-11-2026, 07:49 PM)ironyak Wrote: DHHL geothermal will move ahead with minimal "pushback".
Doesn't sound like you've attended many geothermal community meetings... Or looked online for the current reaction to DHHL's announcement. Best bet is to bring popcorn.

No, I haven’t been to any. 
If you have a link to the online comments I would take a look.
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#54
US Navy operates semi-sealed small reactors.

Ironically, the Department of Defense recently broke ground on the building of transportable, 1-to-5-megawatt microreactors. Originally billed to be used in forward bases that can be set up quickly, there is also possible talk about using them for future lunar/Mars missions.

Now, before everyone gets their undies in a bunch about this post and being related to Hawaii and all that, consider that the DOD gave this project a very interesting, yet totally Hawaii name:

"Project Pele"

Go figure. Copyright infringement?
“I could say the stupidest things and you’d clap” 
-DJT
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#55
Why is the US Navy being brought into this? They don't operate geothermal facilities. They have nuclear reactors, but they are in aircraft carriers and submarines and not designed to power towns or cities, nor could they.
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#56
(05-12-2026, 04:34 AM)TomK Wrote: Why is the US Navy being brought into this? They don't operate geothermal facilities. They have nuclear reactors, but they are in aircraft carriers and submarines and not designed to power towns or cities, nor could they.

Why? Because it was brought up as alternatives. Yes, they have reactors in aircraft carriers and submarines. The point is that they are small, self-contained and produce a lot of power. They don't have to be located on a ship. They just happen to be on a ship.
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#57
Durian Fiend - No, I haven’t been to any.  If you have a link to the online comments I would take a look.

Here's one thread that should be viewable without an account - https://www.instagram.com/p/DYA7LUrEkpb/

Some highlights from the hundreds of comments include "These lands do not belong to the fake illegal defacto state of Hawaii!", "We cannot be doing business with Israeli companies who profit off genocide. Stay maka'ala lāhui! Just look at the people in Puna!", "Mike keleikini (PGV's liason &DHHL Commisioner) confirmed on camera that the kapoho lava flow in Leilani estates was caused from PGV. They blew up a whole neighborhood instead of their own facility when the lava backflowed out their drill wells" and so forth.

There are several others like it across various platforms.

And before anyone says, of that's just Insta or FB or whatnot, much of the same was seen online before the TMT protests, which won out on that issue. It's both fascinating and horrifying how much narrative building and consensus making happens in these online spaces, largely free from any fact finding or input from subject matter experts.

There is a reason the DHHL meeting makers are "preparing for pushback" - just not sure a better slide deck is going to make any difference.
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#58
(05-08-2026, 09:50 AM)TomK Wrote: What disappoints me is that we live on top of the most renewable energy source available to Hawaii, and the reasons it's not exploited more have nothing to do with science.

I imagine you’re referring to the anti-geothermal it’s gonna kill us and the don’t mess with our sacred deity crowd. Where, historically, I don’t think either have had much say in anything. Maybe now, after the Hawaiians successfully stood down the TMT, there’s concern that any new geothermal plans might be up against a similar response. But to date, I think it’s in good measure because of science, not social upheaval, that the resource hasn’t been developed anymore than it has. 

Some background..

Besides the original exploratory well in Lower Puna (right next to where PGV is now, that did little more than help to define the resource and make a mess of it in the public’s eyes) there have been three distinct efforts to develop industrial grade geothermal and their successes, or failures, have all been, in one way or another science driven.

The first attempt to develop the resource was Campbell Estate and True Geothermal's effort to drill in the upper East Rift Zone that I wrote about in an earlier post. In this instance science played a starring role in that we, Puna Geothermal Committee, used a parade of scientists as witnesses to contest the project. We presented the science of the volcano, of the biology, and the hydrological conditions of Kahaualeʻa and convinced the court that it was worth preserving as a natural area. So, one can say, science, not the woo woo don’t mess with our goddess crowd, won the day and prevented the industrialization of the Volcano community and the forest around it.

And then, because of our efforts to preserve Kahaualeʻa a land swap was proposed between the private owned Upper East Rift, and public owned Middle East Rift, a track of land now known as Wao Kele o Puna Forest Reserve. And, eventually, after the titles of the land were exchanged, Campbell Estates was given a permit to drill five exploratory wells mauka of Pahoa in the area that has since been cover by the 2014 lava flows.

Campbell Estates, in this second foray into geothermal, had a permit to drill exploratory wells in an area that had no competing interests, no pesky neighbors, no contrary land use designations, and thus it was expected if they were successful in their initial exploration they would have been free to expand into a permanent industrial grade geothermal field. Of course there were protests, and a few full on demonstrations were held on the road leading into the permitted area, but here, again, the anti crowd had little impact on the course of events. But science, or the lack of an interest in it, certainly did.

As it turned out the site that Campbell and True selected for their explorations was directly above a heat source. And True, an oil drilling company from the mainland that had no experience drilling for geothermal purposes, only understood a simple drill down until you hit something model. Unfortunately that is not the way things work on a volcano. If the heat source, in this case a body of magma, is too hot it drives away any ground water and leaves the area dry. And, as such, True’s well came up dry. They had the heat but no water, and no steam to run a turbine. The interesting part is that during that time the hydrologists at HVO commented repeatedly, 'had the folks at True only asked they would have been happy to point them in the direction they should explore.' But they never did. So here, science, or the lack of it, ended the only real possibility we had to develop, on a large scale, geothermal in Puna. Again, no woo woo, no Pele this or that, no OMG the sky’s gonna fall Punatics. Just obstinate get out of our way cowboys that didn’t have enough humility to ask the locals for a little help.

And still, you know, the real culprit in the geothermal saga hereabouts is our prior land use commitments. The entire lower reaches of Puna has long since been zoned for residential and agricultural uses. And, even though the initial developers of our “substandard” subdivisions never envisioned they would actually be built out, they are. As such, when in the ‘70s and ‘80s the state added an overlaying land use designation of geothermal sub zones, they were, and have always been, wholly incompatible with our prior commitments. 

And still, Ormat, building on the success of the original exploratory well in Lower Puna, was able to acquire the land and squeeze themselves in-between farms and communities and have, because of the success of the reinjection technology, science, been able to demonstrate, on an industrial scale, the feasibility of geothermal in Hawaii. But the ability to expand into a greater source to meet the state’s needs is limited not by woo woo, not by starry eyed be here now have another bump hippies, or Hawaiians with make it up as you go along traditions that suit the current narrative, but rather our prior commitments to the land.

So yeah, the way I see it, it hasn’t been noisy demonstrators but rather science, in one instance good and another bad, and our land use commitments that have steered the development, or lack thereof, of geothermal to date. How it goes forward, and with the state of the industry evolving to make our dependence on specific heat sources less important, will be interesting. I personally think DHHL leading the charge is great. They own enough land, have a good size user base, and are not limited by the same regulatory nightmares that the state has tied around its neck. And, all things considered I think they have a better than not chance of success.

As to the point Yak addresses about the noisy ignorant fools on social media.. and really, read the comments at the link Yak provides, those folks aren’t rational. Really, read the comments. If running the world were left up to them we’d be living in caves and beating each other with sticks. I would counter that we can hope for every one of them there are many tens, if not hundreds, more sane people that will stand up for a rational approach to how we design and run our society.

Further, if it were to be used as a comparison, the TMT issue was nowhere near the same. With the TMT there was a large enough consensus of the Hawaiian community, astronomy good or bad it was time to make a clear statement to the state, go fuck yourselves, and the telescopes were caught in the crosshairs of a much larger issue. I think it’s a shame the TMT got waylaid, but hey it’s an evolving science and whatever discoveries it would have made will be made otherwise, so it really is no great loss except for those that favor ground based astronomy. As it is there’s over 20 spaced based telescopes in different states of development.. i.e., a lot of discoveries are on their way.

So, by my measure, having DHHL stand up and lead the charge for geothermal is perfect. Now instead of the state being the bad guy and having to contend with the ignorant fools who jump up and down screaming about how they know better than anyone else what “Pele” wants, it’s up to sane adult Hawaiians to sort the wheat from the chaff. And, I trust that they will be able to. After all, those whack jobs that have nothing better to do than spew gibberish on the socials will be seen for what they are and we’ll all move on.

Btw.. thanks Yak for the link.. what an eye opener to realize just how out there the disenfranchised are, eh?
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#59
(05-12-2026, 12:24 PM)leilanidude Wrote:
(05-12-2026, 04:34 AM)TomK Wrote: Why is the US Navy being brought into this? They don't operate geothermal facilities. They have nuclear reactors, but they are in aircraft carriers and submarines and not designed to power towns or cities, nor could they.

Why? Because it was brought up as alternatives. Yes, they have reactors in aircraft carriers and submarines. The point is that they are small, self-contained and produce a lot of power. They don't have to be located on a ship. They just happen to be on a ship.

Given the points I posted in #40, I don't see how the nuclear power plants in navy ships are viable as land-based power plants. Ships are less vulnerable to earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, and have access to an awful lot of cooling water. I think you have to address those problems first before claiming those reactors are a viable source of energy for Hawaii. I don't believe that "They just happen to be on a ship" is the reason nuclear power is unsuitable for Hawaii's power production.



(05-13-2026, 03:58 AM)MyManao Wrote:
(05-08-2026, 09:50 AM)TomK Wrote: What disappoints me is that we live on top of the most renewable energy source available to Hawaii, and the reasons it's not exploited more have nothing to do with science.

So, by my measure, having DHHL stand up and lead the charge for geothermal is perfect. 

Yes, I agree with that. I also think I understand why you were looking for someone else to write your book/s.
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#60
The latest small nuclear plant is being built in Wyoming. It's cooled by sodium.
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