Mayor looking at closing beaches.

[randomq]

In a vacuum, I would agree with you. But given facts on the ground, that the unvaccinated are the ones clogging up the hospitals endangering others, I think the burden should be theirs. If more people were vaccinated we wouldn't need any mandates, and things could go back to normal.

[Kimo1967]

In a vacuum, I would agree with you. But given facts on the ground, that the unvaccinated are the ones clogging up the hospitals endangering others, I think the burden should be theirs. If more people were vaccinated we wouldn't need any mandates, and things could go back to normal.

Perhaps.  Thinkers who I have heard, would say that the overriding fact on the ground is that it is the business owners that bear the burden.   Customers may choose where they shop.   They  (thinkers I know) would say people should vote with their feet and their $$.  If you don't agree with a business' patronage policies, then the most sincere form of protest is spending your hard earned money at stores who cater to your preferences.   If we create a one size fits all mandate then there could be hordes of your hungry, unvaxed family, friends, and neighbors breaking into our homes, stealing our food and spreading covid to our keiki.   They probably wouldn't even remove their slippers.  The purpose is defeated and your groceries are gone.  It's the law of unintended consequences (think mongoose in Hawaii).  That's what people I know would say anyway.  They (thinkers I know) say reason is always reason, especially in a vacuum.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

hordes of your hungry, unvaxed family, friends, and neighbors breaking into our homes, stealing our food

Or they might finally choose to just get vaccinated.  It would be a lot easier than breaking into someone’s home every time they get hungry.
My armchair study of Puna thievery also suggests those who turn to a life of crime generally don’t work with deep-seated convictions.

[kalianna]

" ... hordes of your hungry, unvaxed family, friends, and neighbors breaking into our homes, stealing our food and spreading covid to our keiki." I love a realistic, fact-based response as to why we shouldn't have vaccine mandates.

[Kimo1967]

" ... hordes of your hungry, unvaxed family, friends, and neighbors breaking into our homes, stealing our food and spreading covid to our keiki."  I love a realistic, fact-based response as to why we shouldn't have vaccine mandates.

me too! 

[randomq]

The flaw in their reasoning is that free markets are good at solving many problems, but not the ones where costs are externalized in the pursuit of profits. Think of the company that can sell cheaper products by secretly dumping their pollution into the ocean. By the time consumers know it will be too late to undo the damage done. Or the drug dealer selling meth. Their customers vote with their dollars, they make money, and everyone else has to deal with meth head crime. Sometimes the incentive of profit and the costs to society are too great. That's when government steps in for the greater good.

The unvaccinated are creating the externalized harm to society by clogging hospitals and spreading Covid at a higher rate and for a longer duration. Asking businesses to solve the problem is not fair, particularly to small businesses that need the income. The government temporarily imposing restrictions on the willfully unvaccinated to prevent hospitals from being overrun is a reasonable solution. Requiring school children to be vaccinated to attend school (as they already are for many other diseases) is a reasonable solution.

[MyManao]

They  (thinkers I know) would say..

Unnamed thinkers, eh? Yeah I suppose there's all kinds of them lurking hereabouts. I may know a few myself. But still, just because you call 'em thinkers, and I am sure they have all kine words and such, doesn't mean they know how to think. In fact, based on the vaccination rates down at this end of the state there's a better than even chance they don't.

[TomK]

They  (thinkers I know) would say..

Unnamed thinkers, eh? Yeah I suppose there's all kinds of them lurking hereabouts. I may know a few myself. But still, just because you call 'em thinkers, and I am sure they have all kine words and such, doesn't mean they know how to think. In fact, based on the vaccination rates down at this end of the state there's a better than even chance they don't.

Oh, the irony!

[Obie]

They couldn't close the beaches so they decided to close the transfer stations 3 days a week. I don't see how that will slow the spread of covid because the transfer stations were already crowded and will now be more crowded.

[Kimo1967]

They couldn't close the beaches so they decided to close the transfer stations 3 days a week. I don't see how that will slow the spread of covid because the transfer stations were already crowded and will now be more crowded.

True that! A simple solution, since we are in a vacuum and being reasonable, might be to mandate vaccinations to utilize the transfer stations.  Why should we cater to the un-vaxxed?  If banning them from our stores doesn't work then hopefully a pu'u of putrid rubbish in their front yard might.