TMT Work to Resume Says Ige!

[leilanidude]

What makes the TMT a "desecration" and who decided that it is, and on what authority?

If anything, I consider the TMT a temple that glorifies the ways of the ancient Hawaiians who studied astronomy long ago.

[flyingsurfer]

leilanidude:

You hit the nail on the head.
Civilizations Build on there sacred grounds With the best technology they have. The Hawaiians were no exception.

[Guest]

Last night I ran across a decent article from the Caltech perspective towards the TMT project and science. Hope some of you took the time to read it, maybe like Tomk also catch the video into the mind of a scientist. Tonight I would like to share an article that was also well written, and I thought it offers another perspective on the TMT issue. Hope some can enjoy the reading material.
https://m.facebook.com/protectmaunakea/p...7802408334

[rainyjim]

So in short we shouldn't build one more telescope on mauna kea because of a fictional story that bore no relationship to this issue? Strip mining and murdering indigenous peoples compared with building a non-profit telescope. What are you smoking?

[kimo wires]

Another good read:

Quote:The protesters seem to think that placing a telescope that can peer into the edges of the universe on “their” mountain is a sacrilege. Not true. Closing one’s mind to the possibilities of such a beautiful endeavor — one shared by several nations — is the real desecration.

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/opinion/l...ilding-tmt

[rainyjim]

You don't have to have facebook to read the article, fyi.

[opihikao]

quote:

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Originally posted by kimo wires

Another good read:

Quote:The protesters seem to think that placing a telescope that can peer into the edges of the universe on “their” mountain is a sacrilege. Not true. Closing one’s mind to the possibilities of such a beautiful endeavor — one shared by several nations — is the real desecration.

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/opinion/l...ilding-tmt

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Mahalo, Kimo for this.

In general, there is middle ground here, and no need to continue the verbal assaults on either side of this issue (guilty of a few snarky statements myself). It's interesting the amount of insults, and personal jabs that come out during a controversial issue.

Resolution is near. That will be my new mantra. [] Visioning, as it were. This too shall pass, and until the next threatening lava flow, storm, geothermal plant, GMO, Pohakuloa, Nation building/ Kingdom reinstatement, and God knows what the hell else will be debated, I'm thankful for our life here, no matter the challenges.

Now, if TMT would hire some of these criminals who are stealing cars and trucks, selling and doing ice, breaking into people's homes, etc., and make THEM clear the site with their bare hands and a shovel (figuratively speaking). They can help maintain round the clock "protection" with the DLNR and TMT Security guards (they're going up there anyway) supervising. Make them sleep up there and work early, eat, and rest. Do it again the next day until their "sentence" is pau. Everybody can help "protect" everything. CONSERVATION indeed.

Rest well all, it's pouring rain and only a few coquis are chirping.

JMO.

[opihikao]

quote:

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Originally posted by rainyjim

You don't have to have facebook to read the article, fyi.

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Good evening, and thank you, rainyjim. Didn't know that! Don't have FB, but kids do. Learn something everyday. Mahalo. [] (*Going to delete post)

[TomK]

Dear Opihikao,

"Now, if TMT would hire some of these criminals who are stealing cars and trucks, selling and doing ice, breaking into people's homes, etc., and make THEM clear the site with their bare hands and a shovel (figuratively speaking). They can help maintain round the clock "protection" with the DLNR and TMT Security guards (they're going up there anyway) supervising. Make them sleep up there and work early, eat, and rest. Do it again the next day until their "sentence" is pau. Everybody can help "protect" everything. CONSERVATION indeed."

You know, that is a really entertaining thought! They could also be hired as aircraft spotters, IMO a horrible job that keeps people out in the middle of a freezing night on the summit watching for aircraft so that the guide star lasers don't interfere with flights (that is a last resort by the way, there are several safeguards in place prior to that).

However, I suspect you know this is fantasy. The observatories hire reliable, honest and hard working people. Their job is not to rehabilitate criminals, and the last thing I need to worry about is what my staff are up to. I trust them implicitly, not sure I could do that with the people you mention. If there's one thing I adore about the people I work with, it's their honesty and commitment to doing all they can to make discoveries possible. Just one bad apple can make that impossible.

I do understand your idea though, it's a noble one.

Anyway, that's probably it from me for a while, it's back off to the mainland to explain to Pam who my "dear friend" is! []

[opihikao]

FYI: Excellent article. Represents a lot of the discussion here on PW, especially the majority, yet with an understanding of the total picture.

Some get it, some never will.

JMO.

*Note - Fischer retired from the University of Hawaii-Manoa in 2009 after 40 years as a professor in the School of Social Work.


(*Snipped - More at link)

http://www.civilbeat.com/connections/spe...mauna-kea/

With only a few — very few — exceptions, commenters have told us some variation of the following:
•How much respect we should have for the protectors as we build TMT?
•We should have mediation with the protectors as we build TMT.
•It would be “tragic” if we were not to build TMT.
•Wondrous scientific advancements would result from constructing TMT.
•Constructing TMT honors the great Polynesian explorers.
•TMT would create many really cool jobs for Hawaii.
•And bring really cool money, too.
•Plus really cool educational opportunities, especially on the Big Island.

And so on, ad nauseum. And all of these are the “nice” comments. Many letter writers, sadly, were hostile and rude to the protectors and to the many indigenous and non-indigenous supporters of the protectors.


How can the rest of us respond to such strikingly different points of view?

Here is my response, as a haole settler whose 40 years of academic work at UH was focused always on using scientifically-derived evidence to advance my field: The world desperately needs a thirty meter telescope. It promises us incredible scientific advancements. But the world also needs to understand the long history of treatment of indigenous people by settlers and colonists.

Here in Hawaii, it means the overthrow of the legitimate kanaka maoli government; the continuing military occupation; the untold number of desecrations committed by the occupiers and settlers, both culturally and environmentally; and the place of this struggle in the context of similar struggles all over the world.