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And I know Hawaiian people who are proud of Hawaiian tradition of astronomy, proud that Mauna Kea is the only feasible place in the northern hemisphere to build such amazing telescopes (and thus avoid seeing only half of the sky), proud of the discoveries that have been made (truly incredible, benefitting all mankind), and pleased TMT will benefit their economy and educational opportunity. But the Protectors have convinced some that somehow telescopes are bad bad bad. Let's not discover the mysteries of the universe. Let's celebrate ignorance! We can smear feces over walls everywhere! Oh, and give our rights that statehood currently gives each of us to a small disorganized group who can't even agree with each other. While we are at it, let's decide what percentage of Hawaiian blood one has to have to be able to crush the rights of anyone without enough of the precious blood who lives in Hawaii. No matter how long they or even their ancestors have lived here. And that's not racism, of course.
Pam in CA
Pam in CA
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What about the people who view the sight of telescopes on the mountain with pride as one of the few great things accomplished in Hawaii?
Yes.
I can't tell you how often there are days when very little seems to go right, meetings run late, much later than Hawaiian Time, people haven't completed their work, drivers on the road maneuver with the capacity of a herd of cats trying to stay between two lines.
Then, if it's a clear day, I look up at Mauna Kea and there on the summit - - the sign of intelligent life.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
But that is far from being a super majority, and very skewed by the Caucasians, Japanese, and Filipino votes. Clearly a large percentage of the Hawaiian community are against it.
Are you actually implying that only opinions of people of Polynesian descent matter w/r/t TMT? And that opinions of those of other races only "skew" the results? Please tell me I'm misinterpreting your statement. And where is your hard data that indicates a large percentage of the Hawaiian community are against TMT? Nothing like that shows up in the survey.
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telescopes are bad bad bad
As I understand it, the problem is not that "telescopes are bad", but that building one in Hawaii would desecrate the holy mountaintop.
It seems that all of Hawaii is both special and magic, because most construction projects run into "protectors" of some kind or another -- sometimes they're even taxpayer-funded, as with Banyan Drive.
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http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-ne...s-hawaiian
The three cases were postponed as the court arranges for Hawaiian interpreters.
Clearly the protestors aren't in a hurry to get this resolved....
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So yeah for me that article says a large percentage of Hawaiians are against it. Do you interpret it otherwise?
In order to characterize 49% against the TMT vs 44% in favor as a "large percentage of Hawaiians" opposed to the TMT you would have to have a... what is the word I'm looking for, a skewed interpretation of the results.
It's a small difference, and 49% is not even a majority in the strictest sense of the word.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Thanks dakine, I do understand the definition of skew. My comment refers to your use of the word to imply that the poll results are somehow invalid because there were not enough respondents of a particular race. I'm glad that I was wrong about that.
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Admittedly I was no fan of hanging chads.
But I think everyone who lives in Hawaii has some rights. I could see a time period required of living in Hawaii to be considered a resident (a reasonable time period, a few years, perhaps.) But percentage of any bloodline, no. Reminds me of the one drop rule in the time of slavery in the US which was used to decide who was a black person. I think Nazi Germany determined who was Jewish with a rule that anyone with three or four Jewish grandparents was Jewish. These groups were not considered to have the rights other residents of the US had, or other residents of Germany had, respectively. The kingdoms, if you like, determined membership based on bloodlines. Not something to emulate, in my opinion.
I know Dory might not agree with me and sometimes people have to agree to disagree. We all have our points of view. I happen to have always considered racism to be vile, evil, execrable.
So the question is, whose votes count, and who gets to vote, when it comes down to making decisions about TMT or anything else?
Pam in CA
Pam in CA
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The poll had 613 participants across a state of 1.4 million people or 0.04% (4/100ths of one percent). It also has a 4% margin of error. Hard to say it's widely representative or strong evidence of support or opposition.
That said, the poll states that those off-island and non-Hawaiian (ie those not directy impacted) are generally supportive of the TMT and those on-island and Hawaiian (ie more directly impacted) are split on the issue. How is any of this surprising?
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So the question is, whose votes count, and who gets to vote, when it comes down to making decisions about TMT or anything else?
Majority rules, so ... Oahu residents.
