School Walkouts

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

"500 deaths on school campuses in 200 years"

If guns only killed school children, that might be a relevant statistic.
Unfortunately schools are not the only place where mass murders take place. They also occur at the workplace, in malls and movie theaters, churches, temples, music concerts, sporting events... the list is endless.

When it's stated that "only" 500 deaths have happened at schools in 200 years, it's an attempt to distract you from the real question and the real number. Because on a normal day, when people are working, sitting in a classroom, watching a movie, just minding their own business - - wouldn't it be just as tragic if there was a shooting at an East Hawaii church or a worker went postal at 96720 or a gunman walked into the Prince Kuhio Theaters or an area school?

They would all be horrific.

So the real question becomes, how many PEOPLE are killed in mass shootings of all types in America?
1,624 in 1,870 days

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-i...n-violence

If you want to combine the dual pleasures of insanity and social acceptance, religion is your only choice. - Last Aphorisms

[knieft]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW
How about 26 deaths in 90 days (2018 YTD), does that get your attention?

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Yes, but...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/data/...story.html

Chicago alone has had between 400 and 900+ deaths per year for decades, with over 450 deaths so far this year. How come 26 deaths nationwide get attention over 450 deaths in Chicago alone? Racism? Classism?

"Gun violence is most common in poor urban areas and frequently associated with gang violence, often involving male juveniles or young adult males.[14][15] Although mass shootings have been covered extensively in the media, mass shootings in the US account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths[16] and the frequency of these events steadily declined between 1994 and 2007, rising between 2007 and 2013.[17][18]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violen...ted_States

Probably 60% of gun violence is suicides, 3% accidental, the remaining 30+% is accounted for mostly by gang violence.

Makes one wonder, not only about the utility of stricter gun control laws, but also how the outrage of gun violence in proportion to the incidents is so skewed to school violence--especially in relatively rich and relatively white locales. 17 deaths (adult and student) in Florida have caused justified outrage and demand for some sort of reform, while many thousands of gangbangers (mostly black and latino) killing each other and bystanders every year is just background noise for the most part. Maybe part of what makes the school shootings more vile to many is that the shooter is a white male as opposed to a minority male...? Or just the victims?

Gang violence accounts for the vast majority of non-suicide gun deaths (mostly handguns btw), but it takes a school shooting in "the safest city in Florida" for true outrage. The outrage in gang-ridden areas is usually directed at police shootings and generally ignores the rest.

So, at least statistically, something is fishy.

Hawaii is certainly well behind the mainland in gangs and mass shootings and will hopefully stay that way. I doubt that Hawaii's strict gun laws are responsible for that but maybe so in part.

Cheers,
Kirt

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Austin Bomber bought his materiel at Home Depot ... a machete killing at a Maui shopping center

Yes, I think most of us accept and understand that anything can kill anyone under certain circumstances. A guy drank too much water on a radio program contest some years ago and died.

But does anyone want water made illegal? Do we want the guy next door to have surface to air missiles? A machete is not an assault rifle, neither is a screwdriver or materials from Home Depot cobbled together into a bomb an AR-15.

By your argument, a crazy person at the Kahului Macy's with a machete or a screwdriver is no different than if he had a gun capable of firing 50 bullets. That's simply not true. Quantity and efficiency matter. A guy with 50 screwdrivers is not as dangerous as a guy with an assault rifle and 50 bullets, legal or not.

In the case of a shooting death, telling survivors their loved one died with a "legal" weapon brings little solace and comfort. It should, however, bring outrage to anyone with an ounce of empathy.

If you want to combine the dual pleasures of insanity and social acceptance, religion is your only choice. - Last Aphorisms

[kalakoa]

By your argument, a crazy person at the Kahului Macy's with a machete or a screwdriver is no different than if he had a gun capable of firing 50 bullets.

Not quite; my argument runs more towards "people will find a way", we should figure out why that happens rather than try to regulate every possible method that someone might use to harm others.

Consider that the regulations we already have aren't working.

[MarkD]

"So the real question becomes, how many PEOPLE are killed in mass shootings of all types in America? 1,624 in 1,870 days."

This does indeed call for strict new gun control measures nationwide. Putting guards everywhere is an adjunct to gun control. It can also be an alternative to it.

Some of the folks lobbying hard for guards everywhere are gun proponents (not necessarily on Punatalk). Interesting to see these folks ally with liberal safety fanatics on this topic.

Safety fanatics are the folks who don't accept that some death, injury and mishap is part of life. This is by and large a liberal sentiment. These folks cause huge problems for society:

1) They fuel personal injury lawsuits for every imaginable injury on public property; 2) They are trying to ban or limit some extreme sports; 3) They continually work on a host of regulatory measures, ranging from banning all tobacco products on all UH campus to an attempt to halt the sale of large sodas in New York to closing kids' lemonade stands (and removing all swings from playgrounds).

The behavior police who seek a perfect world.

Interesting to see them and some gun proponents all hopped up to put armed guards at every mall and school in the U.S. (Maybe some of the gun proponents are disingenuously in this alliance because it will lead to more gun sales.)

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Consider that the regulations we already have aren't working.

Consider that regulations on modern weapon design and capability are (mostly) restricted to the provisions of a 250 year old law. That's a large part of the reason they're not working.

If you want to combine the dual pleasures of insanity and social acceptance, religion is your only choice. - Last Aphorisms

[Guest]

Thanks Knieft !

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-th...jor-cities

ETA Mark, I myself am neither a gun proponent or liberal.

But yeah, a safety fanatic when it comes to protecting our keiki. I'm talking about from maniacs,, not slipping on a wet floor : )

mahalo

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

US-homicide-rate-is-among-the-worlds-lowest-when-you-discount-certain-major-cities

Yes!
If you only count certain cities or specific mass shootings, the US is doing great!

Here's another statistic for you:
325,667,000* Americans did not die by a gun related death last year!
And that's a bigger number than most other countries in the world!

* 325,700.000 (population) - 33,000 (gun deaths) = 325,667,000

If you want to combine the dual pleasures of insanity and social acceptance, religion is your only choice. - Last Aphorisms

[kalakoa]

regulations on modern weapon design and capability are (mostly) restricted to the provisions of a 250 year old law

Then the solution is obvious: nobody should be allowed any technologies invented after the Constitution was written.

[Wao nahele wahine]

Here's a breakdown showing death statistics in the U.S. so far this year. It appears that most of their statistics are from the cdc.


http://www.romans322.com/daily-death-rat...istics.php

Wahine