I really like the new TMT commercial on the tv.

[knieft]

quote:

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Originally posted by geochem

quote:

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Originally posted by snorkle

mark p says;

The protesters are visibly standing up for what they believe in although I think that the risks they are taking (arrest, in front of cameras, by police who later release them) are less than the risks that can be inferred await those who cross them.

Her we go again; The Hawaiian Mafia?

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Snorkle, I don't know whether your naivete is willful or faked, but try telling that to Wally Ishibashi - who had a bunch of flag-dragging pickups show up at his home (where his family resides) and spent a couple of hours blasting his home (and neighbors) with the protestors theme song - Get the F*** off our Mauna... Wally has a good deal more claim to Hawaiian ancestry than most of those dirt-bags blocking the road. But I guess that was these thugs just having good fun, expressing their opinion, right???

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Serious? I hope not, but still...

Cheers,
Kirt

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

So from where did the misinformation about the water table originate and who originated it

I don’t know the original source, but would guess (and this is just a guess) someone took a number of factual events like small spillages, construction waste not immediately removed and the like, then transposed that into “polluting the water table.” Building techniques have improved in 50 years, and the TMT is specifically designed as a zero waste facility, so it’s extremely unlikely the Mauna Kea water table will be affected in any way.

I think your supposition that one person started the claim is probably right. When the Obama birther conspiracy took off overwhelming the Hawaii DOH with requests for copies of his birth certificate, the person who first made the claim was only too happy to take credit. She made serious cash off her website because of the controversy.

[kalakoa]

factual events like small spillages

How about let's look under the protest "parking lot" and see if there are any "factual spillages" from those vehicles ... or does that magically not count?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

let's look under the protest "parking lot" and see if there are any "factual spillages"

It would be interesting to make a list of protestor’s objections to the TMT, then see which apply to them. For instance:

* Pollute the water table - TMT no, protestors yes
* Prevent people from experiencing the Mauna Kea summit - TMT no, protestors yes
* Causing traffic problems as gypsy claimed 1 million visitors per year - TMT no, protestors yes (granted less than 1 million, but still a problem on a Saddle Road)
* Permit approval for designated use on Conservation District Land - TMT yes, protestors with structures, kitchens, propane, waste disposal, parking, camping, etc no no no no no etc...

[TomK]

geochem,

"Snorkle, I don't know whether your naivete is willful or faked, but try telling that to Wally Ishibashi - who had a bunch of flag-dragging pickups show up at his home (where his family resides) and spent a couple of hours blasting his home (and neighbors) with the protestors theme song - Get the F*** off our Mauna..."

Where did you get this information? Thanks.

[TomK]

kalianna - the misinformation about the aquifer and water table goes so far back it's pretty much impossible to find the source. It was brought up several times in the contested case hearing, has been spread by the Sierra Club and Sen. Kai Kahele and many of those against the TMT both in public and social media.

E.g., https://youtu.be/5sR3ec7DQfg?t=190

[kalianna]

I made my way through randomq's very long link and the closest I came to any claim about water pollution was a general statement, that the there was no guarantee that the telescope would not pollute the water. Please let me know if I missed something here.

And I couldn't watch much of Tom's video link. There are ignorant people perpetuating myths on both sides of this issue, some of them on this website. I think the best we can all do is stick to the facts, do our own research, stop recirculating the rumors and not use the stupidest of the stupid to prove our points about the other side.

[TomK]

"And I couldn't watch much of Tom's video link. There are ignorant people perpetuating myths on both sides of this issue, some of them on this website. I think the best we can all do is stick to the facts, do our own research, stop recirculating the rumors and not use the stupidest of the stupid to prove our points about the other side."

Kalianna - you asked for the source of misinformation about the aquifer/water table claims. You were given good and accurate answers to that. I don't know why you couldn't watch much of the video I provided - it's exactly the thing that keeps the myth about the aquifer going and why the TMT had to spend money and time refuting those arguments, e.g.,

https://www.maunakeaandtmt.org/get-the-f...t/aquifer/

Now, perhaps you could answer this: who are the people perpetuating myths who are on the side of the TMT? Specifically, those with claims that the protesters have had to rebut. Thanks.

[kalianna]

"it's exactly the thing that keeps the myth about the aquifer going"

I completely agree with you. I didn't need to watch much to get your point. My point was that rumors go "viral" yet no one seems to know where they originate. Or care.

And re the myths by tmt supporters, just on this site I've seen accusations of people leaving trash, yahoos racing around with Hawaiian distress flags, trucks leaking oil on the mauna, big party, etc.

So many opinions, so little verification. On both sides.

[TomK]

kalianna - yes, I know some here have made some pretty stupid comments. However, what I'm asking you to provide are statements about the impacts of the TMT from supporters that are untrue. You've asked for people to answer your questions, it seems quite reasonable that you're willing to do the same. Thank you.