Climate Change & The Hawaiian Kingdom

[AaronM]

Or mosquitoes -

https://reviverestore.org/the-plan-to-re...ee-hawaii/

[MyManao]

Something to consider, or mention the next time someone wants to discuss complete island wide sovereignty...

Thanks, HOTPE, for the laugh.

When one considers how tethered the Hawaii economy is to an endless line of ships that currently are in disarray with so called supply chain bottlenecks, while appreciating how tied to the land, how self sufficient so many Hawaiians are, your comments at first, to me, appeared to be more satire than as serious as a second reading leads me to think you are.

Look at the decline of America that we are now witnessing.. those folks, a large amount of them, are batsh*t crazy. Look at the Big Lie. All the anger being spewed at school board meetings, for God’s sake. All the ridiculous drama that orange moron perpetuates and the hordes of people that have suspended all reasoning to blindly follow him. That’s who you’re suggesting we would be dependent upon.

Of course, if you're hanging your hat on the military then sure.. we can suffer together under their guns. But otherwise, HOTPE, I think upon further consideration you’d find little to pin your beliefs on in that quarter.

But hey, it's always a bitch examining one's own beliefs. Maybe just taking a look around and realizing how productive, how involved in a real, close to the ground working relationship with nature, the Hawaiian community really is..

ETA: I should note, if your idea of the future is to continue in our (western civilization's) wasteful pursuit of our pleasure, then sure, your suggested approach would have some merit. But if you, like some of us do, consider the scale of changes the climate crisis is going to impose upon us to be greater than all that, then I think your thesis breaks down. At that point we become dependent on those that actually know how to wield the Earth, locally, to meet our needs.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Big Lie.... school board meetings ... military...
it's always a bitch examining one's own beliefs.

Thank you for an excellent example of the kind of magical thinking I wanted to describe.

US military?  How does it's effectiveness compare with DHHL, an agency which has successfully kept their fellow Hawaiians off the land for a hundred years, while lining the pockets of contractors who appallingly are also cousins and uncles.
Or what about recent dysfunctional school board meetings versus the permanently malfunctioning if not downright impaired actions of OHA?
Big Lie?  As compared to false promises, greedy administrators, and a string of social media deceits that all add up to one small lie after another, because the truth won't support misplaced goals which are not even what they really want or need.

If there's a massive Mauna Loa lava flow, I'll be glad we have the USGS, US National Guard, FEMA etc to take care of the aftermath.  And not a dozen guys in big trucks who trespassed at the end of a road in HPP, set out "No Trespassing" "Hawaiian Burial Ground" signs and 10 or 15 taro plants, only to watch them die a slow death over the following week or two.  Even a haole can keep taro alive if you give them a watering can. Good luck expecting you can be " dependent on those that actually know how to wield the Earth, locally, to meet our needs."

[malahini]

Look at the decline of America that we are now witnessing.. those folks, a large amount of them, are batsh*t crazy. Look at the Big Lie. All the anger being spewed at school board meetings, for God’s sake. All the ridiculous drama that orange moron perpetuates and the hordes of people that have suspended all reasoning to blindly follow him. That’s who you’re suggesting we would be dependent upon.


ETA: I should note, if your idea of the future is to continue in our (western civilization's) wasteful pursuit of our pleasure, then sure, your suggested approach would have some merit. But if you, like some of us do, consider the scale of changes the climate crisis is going to impose upon us to be greater than all that, then I think your thesis breaks down. At that point we become dependent on those that actually know how to wield the Earth, locally, to meet our needs.

I'm quite convinced TDS cuts both ways. Both sides are completely batshit. It's not just the orange moron, but most of those that hate him the most.

What do you consider a wasteful pursuit of pleasure? Living in anything but outright grinding poverty? Either way, climate change isn't likely to be as big of a crisis as you think until long after I am dead at least. And if it did, I'm highly confused how this helps your point. Are you going to live on a raft floating in the ocean?

[randomq]

First world countries can afford their (low) food prices quadrupling. First world countries can pool resources to help their affected populations. Any tiny independent nation is basically at the mercy of the larger nations good will once things get worse. If you think any nation can go back to subsistence farming, look at the history of famine in Hawaii before "colonization" and climate change. Plus, maybe do a poll and see how many Hawaiians, let alone Hawaii residents, are willing to return to such a lifestyle.

[eightfingers2.0]

“ Plus, maybe do a poll and see how many Hawaiians, let alone Hawaii residents, are willing to return to such a lifestyle.”
I can imagine a large majority would. I’ll bet their minds will be changed after the first year or so under “the new regime”.

[TomK]

Look at the decline of America that we are now witnessing.. those folks, a large amount of them, are batsh*t crazy.

Quite frankly, I see more batsh*t crazy people here than on the mainland, especially if you consider the relative populations. Punaweb has its own collection of very strange people, many of whom use sock puppets. Note to AaronM - I may or may not be referring to you. Please feel free to tell everyone you didn't read this post.

[MarkP]

Reliance on subsistence farming is only one of the things that won't be as fun as sovereignty advocates are banking on. In this day and age of ever expanding Chinese influence it is laughable to suggest that a Hawaiian nation could exist without being under the protection of another major world power. This was basically true in 1778, which is partly why things panned out as they did, and is even more true now. Goodness knows the scales have dropped from my eyes in recent years regarding how much of a beacon of freedom and justice the US is but it is important to stay rooted in reality and the US is the best deal Hawaii realistically has. I remain fundamentally unimpressed by any efforts towards self-governance made so far by Native Hawaiians. I have worked with Native Hawaiians who have greatly impressed me and who have achieved greater education and professional advancement than I, as they well deserve. That being said the most prominent advocates of sovereignty are the national equivalent of petulant teenagers threatening to move out. If OHA is any example a nascent Hawaiian nation would swiftly implode once all the readily available resources had been commandeered by the highest-ups. Yes, climate change would make things worse but it would be pretty bad anyway.

[AaronM]

It's always interesting to see what does or doesn't qualify as "Keeping it Local".

If I wanted to hear people moan about the "Orange Moron", I'd head over to Facebook.

[eightfingers2.0]

I’m assuming “the orange moron ” is referring to Trump?

I wonder if some people don’t know he isn’t president anymore….