MK controversy thread

[TomK]

I thought I'd start a general thread about Mauna Kea so any discussion about native culture, observatories, etc., could be posted here. I know we've had many before but they are old and I suspect things will start kicking off again soon.

"Maunakea, the Big Island’s tallest volcanic mountain, towering 13,803 feet, now has one more layer of protection with a decision by the State Historic Preservation Review Board to list state public lands from 6,500 feet and above, including the summit, as a traditional cultural property on the Hawai‘i Register of Historic Places."

https://bigislandnow.com/2023/12/20/port...ic-places/

I have no idea what will result from this if anything, but I am sure it will come up in a lawsuit or any future discussion about the mountain. Any thoughts?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It also includes information that previously was refuted or not even considered in a formal setting, such as historical evidence of spiritual practices, worship, pilgrimages and other traditional practices.

Are the details of *informal* evidence publicly available?

[TomK]

I did note the last bit of that quote which comes across to me as "and anything else we can think of". The other issue I have with this article is missing the rest of the quotes it uses, e.g.,

"William Chapman, vice chairman of the Hawai‘i Historic Places Review Board, said during a March meeting this year that in his mind, the nomination of Maunakea as a traditional cultural property is textbook, to which State Historic Preservation Division Administrator Alan Downer replied: “I certainly agree …”"

I don't know what Downer was agreeing to and also have no idea what meeting this was.

[MyManao]

"and anything else we can think of"

Hey, as long as millions of idiots believe in an orange moron the sky's the limit. You.. they.. anyone can foist any kine nonsense on whoever they can get to swallow it..

I heard the Mauna's are made of cheese. That's why there's some many pukas in 'em. The really silly part is, nobody is eating the stuff. Imagine, all that food going to waste while we pay Matson to haul in all the crap they sell us. Maybe you should start a local cheese forum?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Hey, as long as millions of idiots believe

Don’t you disagree with the tactics of the first example you mention?
Do you then suggest using tactics you find fault with, as your reason to use them when it suits your narrative?

[Obie]

"Hey, as long as millions of idiots believe in an orange moron the sky's the limit."

I think it's really neat that he is living rent free in your head !

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Here’s the link to the application:
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/shpd/files/2023/...evised.pdf

I found the information and arguments extensive in scope, and yet there are omissions.

Ranching and observatories are desecrations, but the adze mines are simply proof that Native Hawaiians had a presence on the mountain, and therefore culturally important, but not damaging to the aina?

As a sacred space reserved for the akua, it was not appropriate for kānaka (humans) to live in the wao akua (Figure 5 and Figure 6). Unlike other places in the world where snow, mist, and fog are prevalent, Mauna Kea is one of only three places in Hawaiʻi that experiences the harsh conditions that these elements can pose. During the winter months and especially during and after large storms, Mauna Kea has drastically colder temperatures and can undergo blizzard conditions, making the ʻāina mauna unsuitable for permanent residency. For some Kānaka ʻŌiwi, Mauna Kea is so revered that they consider travel on the mountain to be trespassing on what is inherently sacred (Ho‘akea, LLC 2009:1-4).

Yet, elsewhere they state roads and trails up the mountain are acceptable.

Kānaka ʻŌiwi continue to engage in ancestral practices on Mauna Kea such as depositing piko (umbilical cord), visiting iwi kūpuna (ancestral remains), conducting celestial observations, navigation, participating in the ongoing cultural relationships between existing and new wahi kūpuna, wahi pana, and their landscape contexts, and performing rituals and ceremonies.

But observatories with presumably new and better celestial observations are a desecration?


The claim that the mountain, religious practices, cultural practices must be integrated as a whole, unbroken, unobstructed, etc, but no mention that those practices were outlawed by the Hawaiian Kingdom and monarchy in 1819?

[MyManao]

Hey, as long as millions of idiots believe

Don’t you disagree with the tactics of the first example you mention?
Do you then suggest using tactics you find fault with, as your reason to use them when it suits your narrative?

It's not what I agree or disagree with, Edge, but rather that nowadays reality is malleable.. folks are running around creating all sorts of alternatives. But me, personally? I liked it better when we all agreed, or tried to at least, on one. It seemed to work better. But hey, as long as the supremes say lying is a good thing, and folks like to test how far they can stretch that, what can we expect?

[TomK]

I have no idea what Trump has to do with Mauna Kea.

[TomK]

The latest on CSO decommissioning:

"The Leighton Telescope has been removed from the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory on Maunakea, and now the decommissioning of the CSO has been paused until spring 2024.

Caltech reported on Thursday that the telescope will be shipped to Chile for re-use. After the winter, deconstruction of the dome and restoration of the site on the mountain summit will resume."

https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2023/...il-spring/