Airport Delays

[terracore]

Hey, at least the Big Island has a spare airport.

Of course, the planes that were already inbound had to be diverted to Oahu and Maui because Hilo doesn't have enough hotel rooms to accommodate a diverted flight. Or buses, apparently.

Fun story, maybe a lesson if you're ever in a similar situation: Back in my Alaska daze I was on a flight that was diverted because of weather. I knew the town I was diverted to didn't have enough hotel rooms for everybody on the flight and didn't want to spend the night in the school gymnasium (this is how they handled these situations, I won't bore you with specifics (too late?) but the airport was on an island that literally closed at night so nobody was allowed to overnight at the airport) so as soon as the flight hit the runway I called the hotel to try and reserve the few rooms they had. The guy who answered the phone said they were already aware of the diversion and weren't taking any call-in reservations. "First come first served" show up in person only. Why? I don't know. I guess because he didn't want to enter the reservation into the system because the rooms were going to be sold regardless, and he didn't care how it inconvenienced everybody else. But the hotel was a franchise from a national chain. So I called the 1-800 number and reserved the room that way.

[HiloJulie]

Yes, the Big Island does have a spare airport! But it was not used. And, bearing me out here, without one hotel room needed however busses would be required, which I am pretty confident are available- thru Roberts. So, please, I am voicing my opinion and do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter!

In as much as I am shocked, but elated that the State along with private sector contractors were able to repair the damaged runway as fast as they did, it surprises me that United Airlines, which had to divert two flights - one a Boeing 777 from Denver, the other a 737 from SFO, did not have some sort of emergency contingency plan to use Hilo instead of diverting to Oahu and Maui respectively. 

Keep in mind that the diversions were ordered while the 2 flights were 3 plus hours out. Also keep in mind that these United flights turn right back around and go back to where they came from. So as the several hundred people heading to Kona are being told that they are going to Oahu or Maui, several hundred people are arriving at the now closed Kona airport with no place to go. 

With the same speed and competent planning and logistical support we saw with the State and Grace Pacific who had crews on a plane into Hilo even before the airport was officially closed and driving over to Kona, United could have shipped the Kona crew over to Hilo, and gotten Roberts busses to bring the departing Kona passengers to Hilo and picking up the diverted passengers in Hilo and taking them back to Kona. United could have also negotiated a “emergency help me” ground services contract with Hawaiian and even Southwest for a situation like this. This would have resulted in only a few hour delay versus a full day of what at best can only be described as “hell!”

I believe that having a contingency plan like that in place would have saved United tons of money in comparison to having to hotel the departing Kona passengers in Kona overnight and the diverted passengers in Oahu and Maui overnight, along with the crew scheduling logistics plus United having to “puddle jump” both jets over to Kona from Oahu and Maui the next day, in addition to United having to “replace” those aircraft in Denver and SFO because the other aircraft did not return when expected actually ended up costing them.

And as a selfish gesture, it would have been cool to see a 777 in Hilo for once!

[kalianna]

"do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter" Sorry, but you passed that point about five pages ago.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Tom mentioned a couple pages back that airlines need support facilities.  A plane can land on a runway anywhere if it’s long enough, and will if it’s an emergency.  Otherwise an airline would prefer to land where they have a gate, ground crew, gate and desk crew, baggage if necessary, and food water drinks for the passengers.  None of the major airlines have any of that in Hilo.  They do on Maui and Oahu.

[HiloJulie]

"do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter"  Sorry, but you passed that point about five pages ago.

Tom mentioned a couple pages back that airlines need support facilities.  A plane can land on a runway anywhere if it’s long enough, and will if it’s an emergency.  Otherwise an airline would prefer to land where they have a gate, ground crew, gate and desk crew, baggage if necessary, and food water drinks for the passengers.  None of the major airlines have any of that in Hilo.  They do on Maui and Oahu.

Which begs the question as to the real reason United dropped its Hilo/LAX service when you consider that those flights were 75% plus occupied on both legs and would have given United a quick option should a disturbance as happened at Kona occur. 

But at any event, this thread has taught me that Hilo is just an itsy bitsy fish in a gigantic ocean!

[TomK]

In as much as I am shocked, but elated that the State along with private sector contractors were able to repair the damaged runway as fast as they did, it surprises me that United Airlines, which had to divert two flights - one a Boeing 777 from Denver, the other a 737 from SFO, did not have some sort of emergency contingency plan to use Hilo instead of diverting to Oahu and Maui respectively. 

The pilots would have had Hilo listed as an alternative airport in case of an emergency. This was not an emergency and then there are different types of emergencies. Some require landing at the nearest suitable airport, some have landing at the nearest available airport. For example, if you have a fire onboard you land at the nearest available airport. If you have a medical emergency, you land at the nearest suitable airport.

This was not an emergency. A diversion due to bad weather would end up the same way. The aircraft (more than a dozen) diverted to airports that had the facilities to handle nonemergency diversions. Hilo would be a last resort for the pilots to choose as there are no facilities there for the legacy airlines, so you would just end up with even more delays compared to diverting to Honolulu or Maui. If a plane was on fire and the nearest airport was Hilo, it would have landed there, but that's not the case here.

[TomK]

Which begs the question as to the real reason United dropped its Hilo/LAX service when you consider that those flights were 75% plus occupied on both legs and would have given United a quick option should a disturbance as happened at Kona occur. 

I guess that it wasn't profitable for them to continue flying to Hilo.

[Obie]

"I am voicing my opinion and do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter!"

Your opinion is wrong because these are ETOPS aircraft. They operate under very strict rules.
Also the equipment to service a 777 doesn't exist in Hilo.

[Durian Fiend]

"do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter"  Sorry, but you passed that point about five pages ago.

Tom mentioned a couple pages back that airlines need support facilities.  A plane can land on a runway anywhere if it’s long enough, and will if it’s an emergency.  Otherwise an airline would prefer to land where they have a gate, ground crew, gate and desk crew, baggage if necessary, and food water drinks for the passengers.  None of the major airlines have any of that in Hilo.  They do on Maui and Oahu.

Which begs the question as to the real reason United dropped its Hilo/LAX service when you consider that those flights were 75% plus occupied on both legs and would have given United a quick option should a disturbance as happened at Kona occur. 

But at any event, this thread has taught me that Hilo is just an itsy bitsy fish in a gigantic ocean!
 

 Where does this 75% capacity figure come from?  As a matter of fact, if this were indeed the case, it does not necessarily mean the route was profitable for them. Do you know if they had their own employees here or did they subcontract with Hawaiian? I never fly to LA.

[HiloJulie]

"I am voicing my opinion and do not desire to argue this point to the nats ass of ridiculous banter!"

Your opinion is wrong because these are ETOPS aircraft. They operate under very strict rules.
Also the equipment to service a 777 doesn't exist in Hilo.

In as much as I may be wrong about a lot of things, what happened with these diversions due to the Kona airport closure and being diverted to Oahu and Maui, ETOPS rules had nothing to do with that decision. 

Under ETOPS rules, ALL major Hawaii airports are within reach if needed. In fact, in an emergency situation, between California and Hawaii, ETOPS rules dictate that the plane would turn around and go back to California even if the plane is up to 2/3’s of the way to Hawaii.